Jehovah`s Witness/BIBLE IS LOGICAL


DW always gives me logical and accurate answers to biblical questions. LOL!

You and your orthodox friends hold a book that you claim you cant understand. So all of your teachings are illogical. LOL!

Who is responsible for the lie that the Bible is a book we cant understand? Who is responsible for the lies of Illogical Trinity and Sadistic Hell Torture? Who is responsible for the lie that God has no problem with a christian who joins the armies of nations?

How many lies in the name of the Lord, do you apostates teach? And then youre accusing JWs for lies. Pathetic. Lol!!!

The answer to the lies of the demons is clear. The Bible is a logical book that was written for our understanding. Whoever disagrees speaks lies in the name of his god, Satan the Devil and Great Apostate.

Its good that apostates are here, for people to see the exposure of their lies. Lol!!!

I'm fine, thanks for asking. I hope you are, as well.

What's with the "Super Christaras" designation.  A joke, right?  Oh, okay...good one.  I guess I can type my own "LOL" here.

Okay, if its "Super Christaras" that you wish to be, then its "Super Christaras" you will be called.  Fair enough?

One thing you said, I have to fully agree with.  This....

"DW always gives me logical and accurate answers to biblical questions. LOL!"

I agree.  That certainly IS funny, and is an appropriate place for an "LOL".  Can't fault you there.  Gotta admit, I even laughed out loud myself, at that one.

But back to "Super Christaras"....If its "Super Christaras" you want, then "Super Christaras" it is.  However, I don't think you are going to feel so "Super" after all this.  I find you to be a flip-flopper, when it comes to what you believe.  Basically, when you are mad at JWs, then they are wrong.  When you are mad at me, then they are right again.  Is this what your "logic" has been teaching you?  DW has taught you well.  I'm glad you two found each other.  

However, I am more interested in facts, so let's get right down to them.  Since you want to perpetuate DWs lie, that I claim we are not supposed to understand the Bible (something you of all people should know better than, since it was YOU who claimed it doesn't contain all the answers, and I said it did), then I will merely expose you as a liar, as I did him.  Not a problem.

Since you have now come on here and made some false accusations of your own, let's look at a couple of them, and then talk about your back-and-forth instability of doctrine.

YOU:  "You and your orthodox friends hold a book that you claim you cant understand. So all of your teachings are illogical. LOL!"

REPLY:  I see that DW has taught you well....Invent a lie, and provide no proof or quote.  Congratulations.  However, I would still like for you to show exactly where I said that we "claim we cannot understand" the Bible.  I believe that was your premise in the discussions, Super Christaras....not mine.

YOU:  "Who is responsible for the lie that the Bible is a book we cant understand?"

REPLY:  That would be you, since I never made that comment.  In a few moments, we will be reading some nice excerpts from conversations you and I have had, which should expose this lie quite nicely.  

And DW, you will want to watch this, too, because you will learn how to DOCUMENT your claims of what others have said, with actual links and direct quotes provided.  You seem to struggle with that a great deal.

YOU:  "Who is responsible for the lies of Illogical Trinity and Sadistic Hell Torture?"

REPLY:  Who is responsible for the lie, that the Bible's teachings on these matters, are "Illogical" and "Sadistic"?  Seems you guys have to attach some pretty emotionally charged words, in order to poison the well, so to speak.

Care to discuss these beliefs "logically", and Scripturally?

YOU:  "Who is responsible for the lie that God has no problem with a christian who joins the armies of nations?"

REPLY:  So, which do you want to discuss....The Trinity, Hell, or the military?  I wish you had enclosed your Scripture, which supports your view that a Christian cannot be in the military.  Your view seems to conflict with several passages.

YOU:  "How many lies in the name of the Lord, do you apostates teach?"

Well, hopefully none.  And we aren't apostates.  By the way, how does the hateful tone of your letter, harmonize with THIS letter, also written by you, concerning "apostates"?

In that writing, you wrote...."Im Christaurus, an ex-supporter of the wrong attitude that some experts like Mr Rando, Granbaum or Martin showed. I hate apostates no more."

So, I take it that this most recent writing, means that you are once again a supporter of the wrong attitude, and that you hate apostates again?

Very nice....

YOU:  "And then youre accusing JWs for lies. Pathetic. Lol!!!"

REPLY:  No, I don't merely "accuse". I expose them when they do it, and I provide documentation.

YOU:  "The Bible is a logical book that was written for our understanding. Whoever disagrees speaks lies in the name of his god, Satan the Devil and Great Apostate."

REPLY:  Yes, and it was you who was arguing with me a short while back, that the Bible is contradictory, and doesn't really explain things to us.  Again, another about-face, from the ultimate flip-flopper.  But it will all be documented in a moment.  

Actually, I agree that the Bible is a logical Book.  Since you are the one I was conversing with about "logic", when DW decided to distort my statements and lie, but never provide an actual quote where I said such a thing....Then why don't YOU provide it?  Why didn't you here?

C'mon, Super Christaras....Show us the quote.  If anyone should have it, you should.  Looks like your friend DW has taught you well.

But about the Bible being written for us to understand.  Yes it is for CHRISTIANS and followers of Christ who come to Him by faith, and complete surrender, to understand.  But not for the "wise" of this world, or for those who proudly fancy themselves as intelligent.  Here, let me give a Scripture for you and DW to chew on for awhile....

1 Cor. 2:13-14-  "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The above passage is why you and DW, simply do not get the teachings of the Scriptures.

Now, let's just examine and see who it is that is FOR the Scriptures, and who is against.....

What follows, are some amazing quotes from the very "Super Christaras", who just wrote this scathing, but dishonest, letter.  It seems he can't make up his mind what he believes.

Consider his own statements....

“The only logical answer I found was from a Hinduist that believes in a personal God(not pantheist). He said that God has never stopped creating through Eternity. Its his sport, its in his nature. This was far better than the "praise me" scenario.”

“Do you have a better explanation?”

To which question, I proceeded to give him a SCRIPTURAL explanation, in answer to his “logical answer”.

Next, we learn from "Super Christaras", that God COULD sin, if He wanted to.   

“I understood that God chooses freely to be what He Is. He has the power to be bad and evil, He generally can be everything, but He chooses not.”

“This does not mean that He couldnt be evil or whatever, but He chooses not.”

Can God sin? Christaras seems to think this is possible.  He informs us….

I dont say God will sin, but He freely doesnt sin. If He "cant sin", isnt that a restriction?”

Uhm, okay.  So God CAN sin if He decides He wants to?  If that's the case, I sure hope that God never just has a "bad day", and decides to compromise everything He has ever been from all eternity.

Next, we are told by "Super Christaras", that we need more than the Bible and "logic".

“How will Christians come in knowledge of Jesus Christ? Through the articles that prove He existed, died to save man from death and was Resurrected? Or through a personal experience and meeting with Jesus Christ?

I believe something more than reading the Bible is needed. Logic is not enough, personal gnosis is also required, a true contact.”

These gems come from the following link….

Now, we shall see that Super Christaras has some real issues with God, and how He does things.  In fact, it is okay to be “disgusted” by God’s actions, in his mind.

“When I read about David obeying Saul, killing 100 Philistines and bringing their cutten organs to Saul, I feel disguisted. When I also read about slaughters of children, animals etc. I have the right to doubt it was ordered by God. A part of this may just be national fights for land, as these that happen every day by man.”

I may be wrong, maybe I dont know something, but I have the right to doubt or feel disguisted, because its just how God made me! Some people may believe what Jews did and continue to do, our because of God's will. Its their right, but also my right to doubt these things are ordered by God.”

Christaras can’t comprehend why God would create him with a lesser logic than God Himself possesses.  In other words, he is basically asking….“Why am I not as smart as God?”  See the following comment….

“I also would like to know as I asked in the previous question, why you believe God created me with a logic lesser than Him? Did God create various logics? If Im a creature of Him, if He gives me His Word, shouldnt I be able to comprehend what He says?”

(Seems like I remember someone else trying to tempt man with that very argument)

Here was my answer to his question, and I think my answer was quite “logical”….

“And finally, WHY did God create you with a logic lesser than Him? That seems a pretty simple question to me, and I'm surprised that you asked it. Because you are the creation, and He is the Creator. You are to worship Him, and seek Him for guidance...not to be self-sufficient in your own self.

Think about it....If you were as wise as God, would you even SEEK God?”

Really now, who is the "logical" one, here?

Christaras thinks that perhaps Judas might have done us all a favor, by betraying Christ…..

“Why? As you said Jesus' sacrifice gave the only hope for salvation in the mankind. Shouldnt we thank Judas' and Jews' action?

In the gnostic gospel of Judas, Judas is the only one who understands that Jesus must die, whereas the others have no idea.”

Next, Christaras thinks the Bible does not tell us specifically about the nature of God, man, or the afterlife.  Quote….

“The reading of the Bible has revealed to me that its not a book that tell us about the nature of man, God, what happens after death etc. Its a book that talks about man's restoration through Jesus Christ. Its involved with the other interesting subjects too, but it seems God does not give us EXACT and UNQUESTIONED knowledge on these fields

Then, in the very same link, he makes this surprising statement….

“Thats why there are thousands interpretations and sadly thousands of christian groups which hate each other because of different interpretation.”

Now, contrast that statement with his latest insult to me….

“Who is responsible for the lie that the Bible is a book we cant understand? Who is responsible for the lies of Illogical Trinity and Sadistic Hell Torture? Who is responsible for the lie that God has no problem with a christian who joins the armies of nations?

How many lies in the name of the Lord, do you apostates teach? And then youre accusing JWs for lies. Pathetic. Lol!!!

The answer to the lies of the demons is clear. The Bible is a logical book that was written for our understanding. Whoever disagrees speaks lies in the name of his god, Satan the Devil and Great Apostate.”

So, tell us “Super Christaras”, which is it…..First you tell us that your reading of the Bible has revealed to you, that there are no “exact” answers to these questions, and now the always-flip-flopping “Super Christaras” is calling us hateful names for believing differently than his current beliefs, on these very same issues.  And all that coming from someone who thinks its “sad“ that different “Christian“ groups show such hate for each other.

But hey, Christaras has always been all over the place, doctrinally.  That‘s nothing new.  When he first showed up here, he informed me the WT publications were “inspired“ of God, and the JWs had the truth.

Then when Rando insulted him, he turned on the Jws, and decided they didn‘t have the truth after all, and even issued a public apology for his hatefulness for “apostates“.

But now that he‘s mad at me for telling him that he needed to stop questioning me incessantly, now the JWs are the truth again.

Furthermore, “Super Christaras” thinks that the JWs are right about the Old Testament, and that I am more right about the New Testament, as if the 2 contradict each other.  Furthermore, he believes the Apostle Paul’s doctrine about the afterlife came from Hellenistic influences, rather than being inspired by God.  

Here’s the quote….

“I believe JWs are right concerning the OT and that evangelists like you are more right on NT. There are cosmological, anthropological NT statements that are in harmony with OT. But there are also new statements on these subjects as the one of Paul, coming from hellenistic influences.”

Here's the link for the quote....

Furthermore, Super Christaras now has claimed that I don't believe the Bible to be "logical", or meant to be understood.  That is what he says NOW, after being influenced by the liar, DW.  But here is what Super Christaras actually said about me to another JW Expert, just a few months back....completely the opposite of what he says here.  I quote....

"I think that even Derrick has fallen in the same trap. He gives a lot of emphasis to Jesus as the Ultimate Savior, but then he also gives a lot of emphasis to everything we read in the Bible as absolutely unquestioned truth. He puts the Written Word in the same fate with the Living Word."

Here's the link....

Hmm, first I put TOO much emphasis on believing everything in the Bible, but TODAY, he claims I don't think the Bible is "logical", or meant to be understood.  That's odd...Why would I believe it so strongly, if I didn't even think I understood it?

The confused and contradictory world of Super Christaras.....

And to top it all off, “Super Christaras” believes the Bible CONTRADICTS itself, although now he is using this smokescreen of saying it is to be “logically understood” (something that I would assert also).  But how can it be “LOGICALLY UNDERSTOOD”, and yet, be CONTRADICTORY against its own self?  That’s not logical, “Super Christaras”.  

But here’s the quote, nonetheless….

“So yes, I see contradictions in these subjects and I sincerely dont know what to believe…. I see contradictory statements on these subjects, COMING FROM HUMANS OF DIFFERENT TIMES AND CULTURES. Thats why I believe God doesnt tell us about His nature(trinity or not), our nature(flesh or flesh+spirit or flesh+spirit+soul), what happens after death etc. If you claim Solomon speaks from a HUMAN PERSPECTIVE, then I can claim Paul does too.

I sincerely see contradictions and the theologians attribute this to people of different times and cultures. Sir, the ancient Jews have not any notion of a soul apart from the flesh, they didnt know anything about a tormenting place. They only knew about a future judgement. Some new added ideas in NT about a tormenting place and a soul inside man, come from Greece and Hellenistic Era. Have you researched the subject, have you read what thousands of university theologians say?”

He also tells another JW expert here, that the Bible contains contradictions....

"I think the Bible contains the Word of God and that is the plan of restoration. But I also think that it contains a lot of mistakes and contradictions and these are not God's words but human views and ideas.

Is this tragic? Should everything we read in there be 100% correct, or we should assume that only Jesus is the Truth?"

And here, he seems to imply that the Bible is not God’s inspired Word.  He acknowledges that God cannot contradict, but just told us that the Bible DOES contradict.  Clearly implying that the Bible is the result of human influences, and not necessarily from God.  

He writes….

Yes, God can not contradict. Contradictions are in human assumptions. Neither apostles nor Solomon were gods.”

“Super Christaras” now possesses “logic” concerning the afterlife, that neither Bible-believing Christians, NOR Jehovah’s Witnesses possess.  

“I thought of an explanation that takes away the contradiction and one neither you neither witnesses have ever thought.

The soul is not annihilated, but goes for sleep till the resurrection of the body. Its not dead but its also not conscious(as you believe).”

Tell that one to your new friend, DW.  See if he likes your logic, Super Christaras.

But now, for the worst one of all…..After him trying to “logically” use Jesus words in the account of Lazarus to argue with the Apostle Paul’s teaching on the afterlife, I simply showed him where Jesus actually AGREED with Paul’s teaching in Matthew 10:28.  I then asked Super Christaras, if Jesus was now contradicting HIMSELF.  

And Super Christaras says that maybe Jesus did contradict Himself…..

“Is there a contradiction with Matthew 10:28? Maybe yes, maybe not. I dont know.”

Again, the question was….Did Jesus contradict Himself?  And this “logical” person says “maybe yes, maybe not.  I don’t know”?

Now, since the above quote about Jesus contradicting Himself comes from a "PRIVATE" writing that he sent to me, I will not provide the link....Unless he comes back and denies saying that.  Then, I will.

But at any rate, that’s what becomes of pitting human logic against the inspired Word of God.  Logic was supposed to be used to help us understand the Scriptures, not argue with them.  

Congratulations, DW.  You should be proud.  This is what becomes of your so-called “logic”, which is really not logical at all.  You and Christaras remind me of a Scripture that just popped into my mind…..Matthew 23:15.

Now, I honestly hated to do this.  I hope his view of the Scriptures have changed.  I really do.  But again, I am not going to tolerate this trouble-maker writing to me, and making up all kinds of stupid and false accusations, implying that I am the one who doesn't believe the Bible is "logical", or to be understood.

I think the facts above, speak for themselves, as to who is "all over the place" in their doctrine, and their views of the Scriptures.  

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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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