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Jehovah`s Witness/DW's "Wrap Up"....Still Trying to Mislead


Well, DW obviously wants this conversation to end, and who can blame him?  Its been a complete embarrassment for him.

At any rate, we just saw him have to acknowledge that he has no quotes to provide after all, but still, he can't just humble himself and tell the truth.  So, another address follows....

In DW’s attempt to “wrap things up”, he unfortunately tried to end the discussion with yet more false and misleading implications.  This man honestly cannot just humble himself and admit what everyone is already seeing….That he was wrong, he misrepresented my position at every turn, and did his best to twist my words into what he knew they were not, and never once provided a single statement in support of his distortions.

What I noticed in his “wrap up”, was that it basically amounted to an admission that I did not say the things he claimed that “Derrick says”, or that “Derrick made a shocking admission”.  No, the only “admission” we now have, is DW posting SEVERAL “replies” now, and not a single one of them, containing even a single real quote, and because of continued and constant pressure, he has to acknowledge this without actually coming out and saying it.  And even though everyone now knows that he provided not one valid quote, he STILL cannot just acknowledge his error.  He cannot bring himself to admit that he wasn’t being honest. He cannot bring himself to say what is obvious….That he was twisting my words, in an attempt to discredit me, and poison the readers’ minds against anything else I might say.  Everyone here knows that is a fact, yet DW cannot bring himself to acknowledge it.  

Here is his statement….“ Once again there's been a lot of words written and a lot of smokescreening and a lot of distracting from a very simple point.

The point always was why does christendom think it's o.k to pick and choose which verses to read logically and which ones not too and who decides which ones are which??

It's a very reasonable question that once again has not been answered it's just been turned into "DW is a liar" "I'm being misrepresented" "Not once did I say that sentence" etc etc etc even if that was true it's not even remotely relevant to the question. Which is a very simple one for an honest person to answer.”

No DW, that simply isn’t going to work.  The only “smoke screening” that is going on, is the one you are trying to pull now.  You are wanting to now make it appear that you are talking about Christendom, in general.  That is false, and everyone who has been following these conversations, knows it.  How many times did you continue to lie to this board, and make the claim that “Derrick says” , or “I was shocked to see Derrick admit” , or “Derrick doesn’t believe the Bible is logical” ?  You repeated this falsehood, and insulted the intelligence of the readers, time and time and time again.

So, that is why you were challenged by me repeatedly, right here, out in the open, to provide the statement where these claims were made.  And you failed, so now you are trying to use a smoke screen.

In your above comment, you have no choice but to basically admit that I did not make one single statement that would validate anything you claimed.  So now, you want to make it appear that it wasn’t really about me, but it was about Christendom.

So, the only person attempting to distract and smoke screen, is you.  I did what anybody would do when misquoted….Demand the quote.  You could and WOULD have given it, if it existed.  You didn’t, because it doesn’t.  And everybody knows it.  You have tried this tactic for years, and I will ask you this….When has it ever once worked for you?  And how does Jehovah God view you, when you do it?  

You cannot and will not even come on this board, and state that you have not lied, and knowingly spread what is false.  You won’t dare, because you know you have.  You know it, I know it, and so do the readers.  I often wonder who people like you and Rando, can manage to go to your meetings, and sit under a Watchtower study that deals with the topic of honesty, and telling the truth?  Do you conduct those meetings yourself?  Do you raise your hand and comment on why Christians should be honest?  Do you sit there quietly, knowing that you yourself publicly lie about others?  Or, have you somehow managed to actually convince yourself, that you are exempt, and that Jehovah looks on your lying with favor, because you're doing it for "the Slave"?

Its no wonder why decent and honest JWs do not want you here, representing their faith.  
You should be ashamed of yourself.  No matter how many times someone has to take you aside and tell you the harm you are doing to your religion’s name, you always revert right back to the same old tactics.  Now, I don’t know for certain who has been writing you lately, and telling you to leave the board, but I seriously doubt its an apostate, as you claim.  Why would an “apostate” even WANT you to leave?  You are the gift that keeps on giving, as far as that goes.  If someone with an evil motive only wanted to discredit JWs, then they would not want you to leave, because your conduct represents what is wrong with the “theocratic warfare“ mentality.  

Now, like I said…I don’t know who you were referring to, but I do have an idea who it might be, but that is beside the point.  Is a person automatically an “apostate”, because they care about how their religion is represented, and they are sick of seeing you disgrace it with your lies?  Does disagreeing with you, make them an “apostate”?  If that is what you think, then you tell us, just  who is attacking who, and who is guilty of character assassination, if you can label someone as “apostate” for merely not wanting YOU representing their religion.

The fact is, you SHOULDN’T be representing it.  You are not qualified.  Not because you are a JW, but because you are not honest.  

Furthermore, you complain because I said you are a “liar”.  Yes, I have said that.  And you have called me a “liar”, “hypocrite”, and a whole host of other things in your time here, as well.

But guess what?  Calling someone a “liar”, is not an attack, when the person really IS lying.  When you document where a person has lied, and given them numerous opportunities to correct the falsehood and they refuse, then it isn’t an attack to call them a “liar”.  It IS an attack, when you call a man a “liar”, but for some odd reason, never can show where he lied about anything even when he challenges you to do so.

Your own Sister T said it best, and I quote from August 14, 2013….“If someone is lying and I call them out, that's not name calling.”

Do you agree with this statement, DW?

But I’m simply not going to allow you to “wrap this up” by leaving yet another false implication.  Your entire premise was false.  You stated…..

“<b>The point always was why does christendom think it's o.k to pick and choose which verses to read logically and which ones not too and who decides which ones are which??

Uhm, we don’t.  At least not the group I represent.  So, your entire attack, was based on a falsehood that you invented.

Look, you simply have NO statement from me to base this accusation on, because I never said anything even close to that.  And you know it.  You were desperate, and you made up something….again.   And you were exposed for it….again.  Its as simple as that.  Maybe one day you will learn, or just leave the defense of the Watchtower, to people who are more honest and more qualified than you, which would be several on here.

So, your little smoke screen about my saying you lied, is not going to work.  I called you a “liar”, because you lied, and you continued lying.  If you could have humbled yourself to acknowledge that you misunderstood, or even decided to just GET HONEST and admit your wicked tactics, I would not have been so blunt.  But when you lie, I will call you a liar.  Its just that simple. Don’t like it?  Don’t lie….

And as far as “Christendom” as you call us, saying that we can “pick and choose” what is logical, well, there is so much I could say about your “logic”.  I could list a hundred different examples of illogic from you.  Such as….

You want us to believe that John 2:19-21 COULD be teaching that Jesus’ body would raise, but it “COULD” also be teaching something else.  Uh, no it couldn’t…not if you’re logical.  LOGIC tells us that when we read Jesus specifically describing WHICH “body” would be raised, He excluded any and all other interpretations, by using the words “THIS” , and “IT” .  He didn’t say that if they destroyed “THIS” body, that He would raise up another one…a spiritual body.  No, He clearly and LOGICALLY made it clear, that He was talking about the SAME body that was destroyed, being the same body that He would raise.

So, your Bible twisting holds no water, from a LOGICAL perspective.

You “logically” do not understand what Jesus was saying, when He clearly stated that His resurrected body was NOT a “spirit”, but WAS “flesh and bones”.  Your “logic” tries to claim…“Uh, well, He didn’t really mean ‘spirit’, but rather, He was just saying He wasn’t a demonic apparition” .  

Do tell!!  Now LOGICALLY, why on earth did He need to “materialize” a temporary body, just to prove THAT point?  Why didn’t He just show up in His resurrected “spirit” body, and when they went all to pieces thinking they had seen an apparition, just TELL them that “No, you are mistaken.  Do not be afraid, for it is Me.  Yes, I am in a spirit body, but I am NOT an evil spirit…It is me, Jesus” ?  And then, He could have put their fears to rest, by saying something to them that only they could know, and that would convince them that it was Him.

Why, DW?  You are a man of “logic”….Why did He need to use deception, by using a body that WASN’T really His, to prove it WAS really Him?  

This is your brand of “logic”?  Thanks, but no thanks.  I’ll just believe Jesus, if that’s ok.

So, we have a clear statement of Jesus, which is simple and “logical” enough for ANYONE to understand….“a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have”

And your “logical” solution to that….Believe Jesus?  No, blaspheme and mock Him, by saying that would make Him a “zombie”.  Now, your blasphemous “zombie” attack, has been thoroughly refuted by me in an earlier article…one which you never even attempted to answer.  Yet, you continue with your satanic mockery of the risen Christ.

Again, your “logic” isn’t something to be coveted.  My “logic” tells me that God is true, His Word is true, and I will simply believe it as written.

DW:  “The way I see it is this. If someone is going to start from the basis that not every bible verse is to be read logically . Then every single time they quote a scripture at me I'm gonna want to know the same answer. "How do you know that this verse is a logical or an illogical verse??”

In light of the above examples of ILLOGIC from you, perhaps that would be a good question for YOU to answer.  Because despite what you claim, you have given example after example, of what true illogic is all about.  If anyone starts from the premise of not every verse being logical, then I would say that would be you.

But again, it was an entirely false premise (remember that “STRAW MAN” thing I pointed out?), because I never said the Bible was illogical.  I said that there are verses that go beyond HUMAN logic.  God’s logic just happens to exceed yours, DW.  

And see, that’s another problem you never really solved for us.  You maintain that you can understand every verse logically, but it has just been shown that you do not.  Yet, we are still stuck with the question of WHO’S LOGIC do we use?  Not every person has the same level of thinking and reasoning.  Some people do not have the capacity to think “logically”.  Some like you, who THINK they do, are often the most illogical ones of all.  Then, you may have 2 people who are both great minds, but may disagree on what is “logical” in a given situation, or as to a particular Bible passage.  Who determines?

Simple….We let human logic bow to the logic of a perfect God, and let Him be the final authority.  That, my English friend, is true “logic”.

DW:  “Again it's all well and good talking about the Bereans and how they tested the scriptures. But again how do we know that this is a logical verse?? Until you can show biblically how we pick and choose each verse then you're nothing like the Bereans nor can I take your quote seriously seeing as I don't know whether it's a logical verse or an illogical one.”

Wow, talk about grasping for straws....Its pretty obvious that the verse in Acts 17:11, caught you completely off guard.  But you SHOULD have already been aware of this verse, before you came on here with this nonsense about “to go against the Slave, is to go against Jehovah” .

Where was the “Slave” in Acts 17:11?  Where was the GB?  You want us to believe they were there in Acts 15, but had somehow disappeared 2 chapters later?  Why weren’t they there, telling the Bereans not to question or “think independently”, but to just humbly “follow the Slave”, because to do otherwise, was going against Jehovah?  Why on earth, would these people be COMMENDED and called “noble”, for not just accepting something, without MAKING SURE it was Scriptural?  

What say you, DW?

But again, it’s a moot point….Because your entire premise that we think we can “pick and choose”, was nothing more than a lie to begin with.

Why is it, that even after admitting (sort of) that you have NO statement from me, you still cling to the lie, and the falsehood?  You need to think about what you’re doing, DW.  

Now this….“Who decides which verses are out of date and which ones aren't??”

Yes I know that Derrick denies that.”

Good grief, Man!  If you know that I deny believing that, then would you please TELL THIS BOARD JUST WHY you lied and made that claim to begin with????  Because you sure never got it from anything that I said!  

And you want to talk about “attacking the messenger”, and “sitting on a JW board telling lies”??  Look in the mirror….

Again, I will set this lie straight, for this board.  The comments he is twisting here, appeared just literally days ago, in the following link….

In that writing, I clearly said that following the teaching of the Apostles IS vital to true worship, because what they wrote, is inspired Scripture.

There was NOT ONE contrast made, between one inspired Scripture, and another inspired Scripture, which doesn’t apply.  This is a complete lie, made up by this so-called man of “the truth”, who cannot bring himself to TELL “the truth”.  Not once, was ANY statement made, that would imply that there are UNINSPIRED SCRIPTURES.  In fact, just the opposite.  I even gave the verse from 2 Timothy 3:16-17, which clearly says “ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD” .

And this man has the nerve to come on here, and make a claim and insult the readers of this board, by telling them that I said some verses do not apply.

Again, let me be clear…This is an outright lie.  There was NEVER a contrast between 2 Scriptures, but there WAS a contrast between the INSPIRED SCRIPTURES, and the UNINSPIRED Governing Body.  The entire point that I made, was that it IS necessary to follow the teachings of the Apostles, because the Scriptures are inspired by God, but it is NOT necessary to follow the teachings of some self-appointed “Slave”, who is NOT inspired by God.

And from that, this man tries to claim that I believe that some Scriptures do not apply.  No DW, it is you who cannot understand the difference between following what is inspired, and what is not inspired.  

Then, he writes….“However when your adding things to the bible such as "the people only had to listen to the ones that where inspired, not uninspired" when the bible say's no such thing”

Again, this was your lie…not mine.  I don’t have to defend a position I never had.  

But SURELY you are not saying here, that we are to listen to UNINSPIRED men, are you?  If so, please make that clear, so we can look at it “logically”.

No, my question to you DW, was this….“When the Slave and Bible are IN CONFLICT, then which do we go with?  Do we go with the Bible, and be accused of “pushing ahead” of the Slave, and not being “humble”, or do we go with the Slave, but be UNBIBLICAL”

You did not answer that question, Sir.  Not even close.  And we all know why you didn’t.  Because to answer that question as you REALLY believe it, would show that you DO believe your original statement about “every Bible teaching from the Slave being the correct one, until the time they tell you otherwise”, just as you wrote it then.

Sorry DW, but you’re in over your head with this one.  You have talked yourself into a corner.  

What I said was, that we should take INSPIRED Scripture (which is ALL Scripture), over the teaching on an UNINSPIRED Slave, any day of the week.  You are the one who can’t give a straight answer to this question….I have no problem answering it.

But this is where you lost it, DW.  You would have been completely happy to let your original lies stand, where you presumed to misquote me, and distort my position.  You guys do it every day, on just about any given subject….The Trinity, Hell, our belief in the Scriptures, etc.  Your M.O., is to survive on straw man arguments, and outright falsehoods.  But because I would not let you just make your false comments and pretend like nothing happened, and because I have continually challenged you publicly to provide quotes and documentation, it got very uncomfortable for you to just keep writing posts, and never provide anything….especially when I kept pointing it out every single time that you did it.  I mean, it was becoming more and more obvious each time, that you had nothing.

So now, you admit the comments were never made, but still cannot humble your haughty attitude enough to just admit you weren’t being honest with the readers.  All you do, is claim you were “attacked”.  No, you were exposed.  Had you merely stated my position CORRECTLY, or provided the actual quotes, then you could've felt free to address anything that I write, and state your disagreement with it.  But you never do this with honesty and integrity.  There is always a wagon load of untruths involved.  

You wrote this, as well….“Readers I am here to help you find the truth and cut through the darkness and confusion of Christendom that is my intention . I spent much time researching and I know what I am talking about. When I say things a lot of the time I'm talking "bottom line" or "in affect what this teaching amounts too is this" we don't need to sit and quibble and debate over words.”

What DW is basically saying here, is this….“I will paraphrase the words of those I hate in such a way, so as to willfully give you a false impression, but don’t expect me to actually ever have a quote to give you.  Just take my word for it, because I’m here to help you.” .

The biggest problem with that is, DW has shown too many times, that he is not about HONESTLY representing what you said.  No, he has an agenda.  And he knows what he is doing.  Several times now, his “summary” of my comments, is actually the OPPOSITE of what I really said.  This is not “paraphrasing”….Its twisting.  And this is precisely what he means to do.

And no, you have also shown too many times, that you don’t know what you’re talking about, in the way you continually misrepresent our beliefs, and state stupidity such as….“They believe Jesus is another Almighty God”, <b>“The believe Jesus is a body-swapping zombie” , etc.  Those are statements from a fool…not a man who has a clue what he’s talking about.

So, don’t tell us about the “bottom line”, when you are not even honest nor smart enough to even know what the “bottom line” is.  You actually haven’t gotten one right yet.

So just know this….You can do this the easy way, or the hard way.  There are different beliefs here on this forum, and that is just the way it is.  If you don’t like it, then you can leave any time it gets to be too much for you.  Your choice.  I didn’t ask your permission to come here, and I don’t need it to remain here.  You can be here, you can defend your religion, and you can answer questions as you wish.  

But know this….If you lie about me, or misquote me, I will expose you…every single time.  So in the future, when you make your comments about “Derrick sits on a JW board telling lies” , then you will be pressured to show the lies, and you will be expected to.  Otherwise, you be exposed once again.  

The quicker you learn that, the better your time here will be, and the more peaceful and respectful this board will be.  

I believe that "wraps it up".  

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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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