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Jehovah`s Witness/Jehovah's Witnesses emulating Jesus?

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Question
Hello Derrick. Just wanted to finish up a point from before.

Jw co- worker "A" told me he was persecuted for being.a jw in the Ukraine. I asked him how so?
He said he had to go to jail for two years just for being a jw. I said really , I didnt know this still happened in  today's environment. Then I began to question him further and after a lengthy cross examination it turns out he  had to perform  community service instead of military service for two years. I asked why he lied about going to jail.  He said "well, it was like jail" . Then he complained about not being paid like the military  Is. Then he said he was under house arrest. Again, turns out house arrest means he couldn't leave his town or state, but was free to go out with his friends at night.

Jw "B" called me a liar for talking about the trinity. He was visibly upset when the other person in the conversation didnt agree with his bible doctrines.  I asked him if he was angry, as  I often do, and this time he said yes. Because I was telling lies sbout the true God.  I tried to tell  him its not a lie if I believe it.I don't think he knows the difference between false teachings and lying.
Both A and B said they don't sin on purpose.

Jw "C" told me that I'd have to make an appointment if I wanted to contiue my conversation about whethet Jesus was s false god or not. This last jw is no longer with the company. I can tell you that jws DO not make the best employees. They seem to take a lot of time off for conventions ect... they also have a have a hard time exercising faith in me as their boss. They dont always trust my judgment. With over 30 years expiernce I think I deserve that much.

So my question is. Why would I want to listen to some ones preaching about God when I dont even respect them as fellow human beings. The first lie spoken ruined their credibility for me. So for me it isthe messengers that prove to me they are not what they claim to be. Why would I put trust in anybody who blatantly lies and don't even know they're doing it?

Thanks Kevin.

Answer
Hello, Kevin.  Thank you for sharing this.  As I said to you in my reply to your other question (which was marked "Private"), I wasn't sure if you meant for it to be Private or not.  I didn't want to do like some of the JWs here do, who can't respect a person's wishes, and change it to public if you wanted it private.  But since this writing basically expounds on your previous writing, I am thinking you might not have meant to make the other one "Private".

This is amazing...."Jw co-worker "A" told me he was persecuted for being a jw in the Ukraine. I asked him how so? He said he had to go to jail for two years just for being a jw. I said really , I didnt know this still happened in today's environment. Then I began to question him further and after a lengthy cross examination it turns out he had to perform community service instead of military service for two years. I asked why he lied about going to jail. He said "well, it was like jail". Then he complained about not being paid like the military Is. Then he said he was under house arrest. Again, turns out house arrest means he couldn't leave his town or state, but was free to go out with his friends at night."

Jw "B" called me a liar for talking about the trinity."

So, let me make sure I have this straight....JW "A" lies basically whenever he feels like it, and JW "B" says nothing about that, but then calls YOU a "liar" because you're a Trinitarian?  

Hmmm....where have I seen this pattern before?  I have always marveled how these people can join in and call Christians on here "liars", and become quite vocal about it, yet when one of them tells an outright lie, suddenly their buddies go silent.  Isn't that just odd?  

So, he says he went to jail, but he didn't.  Then, he was under house arrest, but he really wasn't.  Sounds like this guy can't be trusted, as far as you can throw him.  

And you hit on a very good point, in your last paragraph.....Why would you want to listen to them, when they have shown themselves not to be credible people?  This is something DW has never quite figured out, either.  He gets all bent out of shape when I say this, and then he loves to point out that the "truth is not determined by a person's character".  Now, this is technically true.  But what seems to fly right over his head, is that people are turned off to what they have to say, BECAUSE of their lack of integrity.  If they will lie about one thing, they will lie about something else.  So, why trust them?  Like the boy who "cried wolf"....the last time he did it, he was telling the truth.  Problem is, when a liar does finally tell the truth, nobody takes him seriously because he has spent so much time lying and destroying his own credibility.  

That is probably why the Bible teaches that people who POSSESS the truth, should have a good testimony, and be people of honesty and integrity.  It simply makes your message more believable.  So, I understand fully what you mean, when you say that first lie ruined their credibility.  If people who profess to have the "truth", would be people who TELL the truth, it might just serve them better when they want people to listen to them.

As for if they know they are doing it, I think in some cases, they do.  I even think 2 particular experts here, do it intentionally.  They have this "theocratic warfare" mentality....that the end justifies the means.  If they can convince themselves that they are lying in defense of the Organization, then hey, surely Jehovah will overlook it.  Never mind what He SAID about lying....there's gotta be a loophole in there somewhere.

Now, to be fair....Not all JWs condone the acts of the ones who lie.  This is another point you hit on...the difference between lying, and false teachings.  This brings up the question...."Is it possible to spread a lie, and not be a liar" .  I believe the answer is "yes", under certain limited circumstances.  If a person spreads a lie that he knows isn't true, or at least doesn't have any information that it IS true, and is doing it merely to defame or discredit that person....they are a liar.  If they BELIEVE the lie they are spreading is actually the truth, then they are merely deceived themselves, but sincere in their belief.

That is why I don't label the majority of JWs, as "liars".  While they may be spreading a belief that is untrue, they believe it is, and are not attempting to deceive anyone.  They are spreading what they believe to be the truth.  

So, when he called you a "liar" for believing in the Trinity, you were correct to point out that you're not lying, if you really believe it.  Now, the question of whether your belief is right or wrong (and its right, by the way), simply doesn't enter into whether or not you are lying.  I do not call JWs' liars, for believing that Jesus is Michael....even though I believe that idea is completely false.  However, if a JW knows deep down that the belief is bogus (and many do), and continues to promote it because its the "current teaching" of the "Slave", then he's lying.  Simple as that.

It sounds like your experiences at work, are somewhat like my experiences here.

You wrote...." I asked him if he was angry, as  I often do, and this time he said yes. Because I was telling lies sbout the true God."

Yeah, I've heard that one before, too.  I recall it being said here by a certain JW, that it makes his "blood boil" , for anyone to believe in a literal Hell, because that is supposedly lying about Jehovah God.  Funny....I wonder if it makes Jehovah angry, for this person to deny what He plainly says in the Scripture about Hell, and then proceeding to twist the verses that talk about it?

But they can get so indignant about you "lying about God", and talk about their "blood boiling".....Well, it makes my blood boil to see them deny the Bible's very plain teaching on the bodily resurrection of Christ, and blaspheme the Savior by calling Him a "body swapping zombie".  You want to talk about the ultimate disrespect and blasphemy, and attack on Jesus Christ...Well, that one has to be it.  He plainly says He raised in a body of "flesh and bones", and we get some malarkey about "Well, he really was just denying that He was a demonic apparition" , and completely ignore what the passage says His body WAS...."flesh and bones".  And then when you point out what Jesus said, they call Him a "zombie".  

Man, I'd hate to be them when they have to answer for that.

Kevin, I want to thank you for writing your experiences.  I am sorry for the slight delay in answering, but I have been working some long hours the past 2 days.  But I am glad you wrote, and its interesting to see the parallels between your experiences at work, and mine here on this board.  They are very similar, to say the least.  Almost identical, in some respects.

May God bless you and your family.  Take care.


Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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