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Jehovah`s Witness/Danny, Rando, and Eddie Have Lost It....Part 1

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Question
This is in response to our now resident psychiatrist, that we are privileged to have on board.  

The recent posts from “Danny Boy” have been rather interesting.  This person seems to believe they are some sort of professional, in diagnosing various things in people they do not know, and have never spoken with.

But I admit to being disappointed.  Danny started right off, telling us that he was going to show how these traits he got from a web site, applied to me.  He wrote….

“Please permit me to post my findings to the JW Forum in studying the Abusive traits of Derrick Holland that will benefit the Board.”

Well, I was all set to read his “findings” about me, but strange….There weren’t any.  I mean, ANYBODY can copy and paste from a web site.  I can go find an article about the murder of John F. Kennedy and post it here, but that doesn’t prove that anybody here killed him.  I’m starting to think Danny himself, needs psychiatric help.  Why would he tell us he is going to share his “findings” about me and my “abusive” behavior, but then proceed to not even do that?  In fact, I never saw one point tied in with me.

Hmm…That’s odd.

What follows, will be my “abusive” reaction to his comments.

Answer
I was really hoping for some specific examples in this forum, of my exhibiting this "abusive" behavior.  Wonder why Danny said he was going to "post his findings", but then not post any?

He must not have found anything.

Of course, his latest analysis contained a major flaw, right from the beginning.  A flaw that I am pretty certain, Danny will not address.  

It is found in the following statement….

DANNY:  “The abuser will swear that events never occurred and that certain things were never said.”

Now, this may very well be something that abusers do.  I wouldn’t know, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility.

There is, however, a flip-side of this, that Danny didn’t consider.  And I would've thought that someone who was really qualified to diagnose disorders, would have covered the bases here.  But this is not the case.  In fact, Danny doesn’t even sound like someone WITH a college degree….let alone a qualified professional in diagnosing disorders, due to the illogical assumption I am about to outline.

He asserts in his copy and paste, that “the abuser will swear that events never occurred, and that certain things were never said” .  

But as certain JW posters to this forum (Danny included) do not know how to use logic, or their brains for that matter,  Danny seems to be under an assumption that if someone says that events never occurred and certain things never were said, then this in itself is proof that the person must be an “abuser”.  

Oh really?  Actually, there is another possibility that needs to be considered, as well…..When a person claims that “events never occurred and that certain things were never said” , it isn’t necessarily a sign that the person is an abuser.  

It could simply mean that the events never occurred, and that certain things were never said.
 
In which case, we must consider the possibility that it isn’t the person making the claims that things were never said, who has the disorder, but rather, the person/people who are making the claims that the events DID happen, and WERE said, who has the disorder.

So, how do we know which it is?  Simple….We already know.  We have seen it play out in the forum for years now, and yes, even in the past few weeks.  Eddie made statements that he claims were "said" or "taught".  I denied them.  All Eddie had to do to prove I have a disorder of "abuse", and fit in with the trait listed above, was to show that I did in fact, say them.  But he couldn't seem to do that.

When one person claims another person said something, and that person denies saying it, then the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion, to prove it was actually said.  

I believe there have been a great number of posts, as of late, requesting that the actual statements which were asserted to have been made, to be publicly given so that everyone could SEE that they were made.  But just the opposite happened....after several rejections and plain outright ignoring of the requests, the person making the assertion finally had to admit….

“So no quote”

Guess that settled that one, huh?

Hmm…I think we are starting to see where the disorder really lies.  All one has to do to determine who has the disorder, is to show proof that the statements actually WERE made, and that the events actually DID occur.  And I believe that there have been more than enough attempts to get the quotes, to prove to all, that the statements really were not made after all.

Now, if Danny really knew what he was talking about (which he doesn’t), he would know that there are also disorders that cause a person to imagine things that never happened.  Wonder why Danny didn’t mention that one?

One such disorder, is called “Confabulation” .  This disorder causes a person to imagine that events or conversations happened, which never did.  Now personally, I do not believe Rando nor Mr. Garcia (Eddie), suffer from Confabulation, for one simple reason….A person with Confabulation, actually BELIEVES that what they are saying, is true….even though it isn’t.  In other words, there is not a willful attempt to deceive, on the part of a person with Confabulation.  

On the other hand, Eddie and Rando are just bald-faced liars.  They will say things with every intent to deceive, twist, distort, invent, and show everyone that they are the furthest thing from honest people and true Christians, that one could imagine.  Even when they know they will be asked for evidence of their claim, and know that they can’t produce it, they lie anyway.  

This isn’t Confabulation….Its DESPERATION.

Now, let’s see what psychiatrists have said about “Chronic Liars” .  From the following link…..

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/caregivers/2014/09/6-subtle-characteristics-of-the

“Pathological lying (PL) has been defined by the Psychiatric Times as “a long history (maybe lifelong) of frequent and repeated lying for which no apparent psychological motive or external benefit can be discerned.”

“It is something that has negatively affected many people, even professionals, who are often unaware of the psychiatric instability or personality disorder of the liar.”

Now we’re getting somewhere.  Just read any of Rando’s mindless babblings, and deny that there is something wrong in his head.  Impossible.  And the lies that he simply pulls out of a hat….Now, we are starting to see that there is a disorder for that, too.  

Funny that Danny didn’t mention that.  Perhaps cause he suffers from it, as well?

More from the site….

“For example, in one of my previous articles I focused on Judge Patrick Couwenberg, a Superior Court Judge of California, who lied repeatedly while serving the public. The former Judge lied and stated that he was a Caltech graduate, a wounded war veteran and a CIA operative in Laos in the 1960s.”

And the next sentence about this Judge, was really enlightening…

“All of these statements were easily identified as unreliable, but he continued to evade others.”

Hmm, I do believe there are a LOT of readers out there, who have called Rando out and asked him about his lies by writing questions to him, only to have him “reject” the question.  I guess you could call that “evading”.  

But it gets worse.  This next paragraph is SPOT ON….

“The sad part about this story is not so much that the former Judge lost his job in the end, but that he was very unaware of the fact that his steps could be traced and that many people would ultimately find him out. That level of consciousness was missing from Patrick and is missing in so many other people who are compulsive liars. The very fact that a lie could be found out does not affect the liar. The very fact that the liars work-life, home-life, or reputation could be in jeopardy as a result of the lies, does not phase the liar. Guilt, shame, or regret does not affect the liar. Consequences also do not seem to affect the liar.”

Wow!  Now, is this Rando and Eddie, or is this Rando and Eddie?  Time and again, they lie, are exposed, end up looking stupid, are challenged, have no answer, their hypocrisy is exposed, people tell them what morons they are, people tell them how bad they make their religion look, and they just keep right at it….And back they come for more, and just keep repeating the cycle.

This article could not have been more descriptive, of what we see in this forum, from these clowns.

But let’s keep reading….

“So then why does the liar engage in such behaviors? Multiple research studies have attempted to find an answer to this question to no avail.”

And here on Allexperts, multiple questioners have attempted to find an answer to this same question, but to no avail.  

Don’t believe it?  Just try it…Write Rando or Eddie, and ask them why they lie.  Simple question.  They CAN’T deny that they do it, because there are enough lies on this forum from them, to keep one reading from now until Christ’s return.  So, why don’t they explain why they do it?

I know why they do it, but I wonder if they could get honest with themselves, as to the reason?  I doubt it…because “honesty” is a foreign concept to them.

Let’s read on…

“Trying to understand the mind, behaviors, and intention of the liar is not an exact science. It is very much an inexact science and entails years of study. Humans are complex and trying to understand the reasons for why they do all the things they do, takes more than a graduate school degree in psychology and years of work experience.”

But folks, we are in luck!  We have the highly trained and highly qualified, Danny, to address this topic for us.

Perhaps Danny can shed some light on it, for us….Danny, why do you people lie, with seemingly no regard for the consequences (being made to look stupid, and ultimately, answering to God for it), when you know that you’re only going to disgrace yourselves and the WT, in the process?

Explanation?

But it gets even more interesting….

“It’s important to keep in mind that there are pathological liars who quite frankly just cannot help telling so many lies. Their world is much different from our world.”

I think we can safely rule out these guys on that one, since they certainly CAN help it….With every false post they write, they make the decision to sit down and type out lies, instead of telling the truth.  This requires forethought.  So, I believe they would fall partially into this next category….


“But there are also liars who actually like telling them, are good at it, and do not regret anything they have ever said. There are some “skillful” liars who attempt to evade and harm everyone they come across in their lives. In fact, these type of liars would meet criteria for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder (or sociopathy) because they tell lies in charming, believable ways.”


Now, Rando and Eddie certainly have SOME of these traits, but not all.  They are NOT very “good at it”, because who besides them, would be dumb enough to tell lies that they know are easily disproven, and lies for which they know they will be asked to back up with quotes, and know they will not be able to?  So, they’re aren’t very skilled at it, but they still do it anyway.

And it would certainly be a bit of a stretch, to call them "charming" or "believable".  In fact, their lies are so shallow and obviously false, that even casual readers wonder what is wrong inside their heads.  Actually, its their hearts.

However, as the above paragraph describes, they also do not regret their lies, either.  Their desire IS to evade (reject direct questions pointing out their lies), and to “harm” (their intent, anyway) anyone who disagrees with them.  Even fellow Witnesses who have done nothing but give great defenses for Watchtower teaching, yet dared to point out that these other “Witnesses” are not acting in accord with Bible principles, are lashed out at, with lies and the "intent to harm".  Since the time that this JW got honest about the behavior of the other dishonest and trouble-making JWs, we have seen one lie after another, in retaliation against him.

There’s gotta be a disorder for that, doesn’t there, Danny?


Now, this last part of the article is quite long, but well worth the time to read it, as it explains a lot of what we see here on a regular basis….


I encourage you to keep 6 things in mind as you deal with a pathological liar:

1.  Know that a pathological liar will study you:

The goal of the liar may be hidden, but you can count on the fact that the liar doesn’t want you to know the truth. Liars, often sociopaths, are known to “study” the person they hope to take advantage of.”


I think its fair to say that they do this.



2.  Don’t forget that the liar lacks empathy:

As hard as it is to believe, it is true. The liar doesn’t have any consciousness of how the lying behavior may make you feel. The liar doesn’t think before he lies: “oh, I better not say that or I could hurt that person or mislead them.” The liar doesn’t care anything about your feelings and never will. A question many parents have asked their child who lies is: “Why don’t you just tell me the truth. Why is that so hard!?” As easy as it is for you to think this way, it’s not that easy for the liar. The liar lacks the ability to consider what you might feel in response to their lie (which is empathy).



3.  <b>Most “normal” liars feel guilty and are relieved when you change the topic or stop asking questions:

I found that the pathological liar often shows no emotion when lying, which makes them believable. The person who is lying and has a sense of empathy or consciousness, will often show relief when the topic is changed. For example, if someone told you that they grew up in a concentration camp and experienced a lot of trauma as a result, you would ask questions about it to further understand. If you changed the topic at the point when you observed stress or anxiety in response to your questions, you would see the person may be lying and is well aware of the consequences of that lying. Most of us will relax when others cease from asking so many questions. A pathological liar is not phased.



4.  All liars don’t do the common things you think liars do:

Believe it or not, liars don’t always touch their nose, shift in their seats or from one foot to the next, or even look sneaky. Some really experienced liars are good at giving you direct eye contact, seeming relaxed or “laid back,” and may appear very sociable. The thing to look for is eye contact that feels piercing. Some sociopaths have learned how to evade people with direct eye contact, sociable smiles, and humor. Trust your instincts and discernment here.

This one is a lot easier to pull off, under an alias, and hiding behind the anonymity of a computer screen.



5.  The most sneaky liars are manipulative:

I once heard someone say “we all manipulate.” While this might be true (although I disagree), the liar tends to manipulate more than anyone else and has learned how to become a “pro” at doing it. There is nothing impressive about the dangerous or evil manipulator. They know everything to say and do, they know what you want and don’t want, and again, they study you. In fact, many pathological liars (and sociopaths who lie) use sexual or emotional arousal to distract you from the truth. Watch someone who seems to be directing their attention to you in such a way as to stimulate your arousal in some way. That arousal could be psychological (peaking your interest), emotional (causing you to feel connected to them), or sexual.

Let’s hope that they never cross that line, although Rando teeters right around it, at times.  He seems obsessed with sexually deviant behavior, given topics he writes about quite regularly, and certain web sites that he has referenced in this forum.



6.  Pathological liars exhibit strange behaviors:

Can you remember how you felt, perhaps as a child or teen, after you were caught lying to a teacher, a parent, or friend? Did you feel guilty, sad, or afraid that the other person would no longer accept you? Some research suggests that some pathological liars show no discomfort when caught lying, while other studies suggest that liars may become aggressive and angry when caught. No pathological liar is the same.

again, this is spot on.  How else can it be explained, that these guys can lie time and time again, even when completely exposed for doing it, yet seemingly be un-phased, and continually repeat the lying process?

Yep, and how many times have we seen Rando lash out in one of his infamous angry and hateful tirades, right after being caught in another lie?  In fact, that is ALWAYS what happens, when he is exposed.  Just watch the pattern unfold before our very eyes.


Now, just a few short notes from yet another page, on being a “Chronic Liar”


http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Pathological-Liar


“Examine the person’s reaction when they're busted in a lie. The worst thing that can happen to a pathological liar is to be busted for telling the lie.

Extreme defensiveness. Expect the person to become extremely defensive, doing whatever he or she can to pin blame on someone else.

If that doesn’t have Rando’s and Eddie’s name all over it, then I don’t know what does.  Yep, every time they are caught, we see this play out…Blame Derrick for it.  Like the other day, when Chris wrote to Eddie about his own conduct, and Eddie made his entire response about me, and my so-called challenge to debate him.  His "reply" had nothing to do with the question....Yet, we saw constant evasion of the question, and instead, an attempt to turn the topic to a discussion about me.  Rando does the same thing….When caught in a lie, bring up Holland, and pretend he is responsible for it all.  Ms. T has also done this same thing.

I would be interested in seeing a study, as to whether this type of behavior is higher in JWs, than the rest of the population.


Quickly fabricating another lie to cover up the original fib. The pathological liar will start the cover-up process quickly to ensure that their reputation remains in tact. This may include a bigger lie than the original fib––which may be quite apparent.

This is reminiscent of the 1874 conversation a few months back.  Rando was constantly having to tell additional lies, in order to keep his first lie intact.  But as he always does, he merely wound up contradicting himself.  We have seen it time and time again....Once he claimed I was here "posing as a JW", but then turned right around in the next breath, and admitted that I state that I "have never been a JW".  One day he claimed I had "abandoned the Trinity teaching", and then the very NEXT day, claimed that I "love the Trinity doctrine".

Hard to remember from one day to the next, what the last lie was.


But we see more traits of these Chronic Liars, as we read on....  

Vindictive and may seek revenge. Rage and anger may be another reaction stemming from being “outed”, so expect possible retaliation or vindictive behavior.”

Well, I believe we have learned a great deal about these JW “chronic liars”, that seem to always find their way to this forum (not saying that all JWs here are liars, but that the ones who are, find their way here).

These guys tell their lies, and when exposed, are quite vindictive.  You will almost always see a retaliatory post, which typically EVADES the original lie being exposed (remember evasion is a trait we just read about), and instead, attempts to attack the person who caught them in a lie.  

I can provide NUMEROUS examples of this one, from both Rando and Eddie.  Like the 5 things that Eddie claimed I “said” and “taught”.  When caught lying and shown to have invented the statements, he merely tried to change the topic to a discussion about Hell, and has since been labelling me (and any who oppose him) as “fools”, “Critics of Jehovah God”, “hypocrites”, etc.  

I believe we now see why they do this….They’re chronic liars.



Now, I was actually going to cover some of the aspects of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder” , as well.  But as this has gotten rather long (but very enlightening), I will save that for a Part 2, if a Part 2 becomes necessary.

In closing, I would like to ask Danny for his “professional” analysis here.  Perhaps he can tell us if this is the disorder that they suffer from, or if its another one.

But I doubt Danny will have much to say, in response.  He seems to run when his bluff is called.  Case in point, this writing to Rando, from December….

“I just tried to write DH and there is No Question link! I wrote him before and it never posted.”

Now, Danny exhibits one of the signs we have just been talking about….Lying.  He claims he wrote me before, and it never posted.  This was a lie…It certainly did post, and I told him how to find it.  He never once felt the need to come back, and admit error, or apologize.

He also referenced a post from Christmas of 2013, written by Mr. Hepburn, where he claimed that the post didn't mention Jehovah's name even once.  Well, yes it did.  But we never saw a retraction, or an admission of error.  Eddie was just exposed for making up quotes, but we never saw a retraction.  

Remember what we just read….The chronic liar does not feel remorse.

But the point I really wanted to address, was this clown’s claim that he “just tried to write DH” , knowing full well I was “on vacation”.  What kind of scared rabbit "tries to write" you, when he knows full well that you aren't taking questions?  Danny, that's who.  

But funny….Once I returned from “vacation”, I let little Danny know I was back and that he could write.  But strange….Haven’t heard a word.  

It must’ve been when I told him he could write, but that he had better come armed with facts and truth, or I would make him look foolish.  Guess that little thing about “truth” scared him off.  If you remove lying from their arsenal, they don’t have anything left.

But at any rate, Danny….I sure hope your Part 2 is better than your Part 1.  I was really hoping to see some specifics from you, as to how these traits of an “abuser”, apply to my daily practices….Seeing as how you know so much about me.  

I was really hoping you could provide some examples of my threatening my children (now both bigger than me, but seemingly with no desire to repay me for all those years of “abuse“ at my hands), or how I am “unable to have a relationship” (will be celebrating 22 years of marriage to the same beautiful wife, come April).  But seriously, if you have some insight into my intimate life and relationship with my wife, I would love to hear about it.

And while you're at it, may we have some insight into YOUR relationships, as well?  Rando, Eddie, Danny....Are you guys in a happy marriage?  Ever been divorced?  Close to your children?  I mean, I have nothing to hide.  So let's ALL just lay it on the table, if you're willing to back up your claims here.

And this one….“The abuser shifts responsibility for his actions away from himself and onto others, a shift that allows him to justify his abuse and anger because the other person supposedly “caused” his behavior. For example: “If you hadn’t screamed, I wouldn't have had to hit you.” Or he may say, “She pushes my buttons.” Statements like this blame the victim.

LOL…Would that be sort of like your friends who, when asked why they lie and make fools of themselves, saying “Because Holland is in this forum” ?

Oh, and I CAN provide quotes, if you’d like.

Nice try, Danny Boy.  I’ll be looking forward to Part 2.  Have a nice day.  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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