Jehovah`s Witness/private question
I forgot to give you the okay to make my questions public. For some reason I thought you had already.
Thanks again, Kevin.
In checking back through the records, I did make it public after all. But for some reason, I can't find that the 2 follow ups ever posted....only the initial question, which was Public. You had initially sent it as a Public question, but the follow-up was marked "Private", and I asked you if you meant for it to be Private. You didn't, and you followed up again and asked me to make it Public, which I did. But I cannot find the link where it ever actually posted.
At any rate, I will paste it below since you asked me to. It does validate that you have sent something Private, without the intention of it being Private.
Like I said, the one private question was no big deal...Just a "thanks", and telling me that you were going to share some experiences. The other one, was the one that I believe was somehow made private on accident. If you want them public, I have no problem doing that. I will just post them here, if that's okay. Again, not sure what her issue was with you sending something Private, or her questioning your honesty about not realizing it. And I'm still amused that she thinks you are me. Unbelievable.
Well, here they are.....
Category: Jehovah`s Witness
Subject: super lol
Thanks Derrick. That made me laugh. I'll just respond with more (true) stories about this jw and how illogical his thought process is. Not to mention how the critical thinking portion of his brain needs more exercise.
Ok, sounds good. I was going to respond to him anyway, but I thought just in case you wanted to address him, you could send it to me, and I would use the reply to address him as well. Well, I will look forward to hearing more (true) experiences on your job with the JWs...:)
And from 9/25/14....
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
Thanks for the well wishes Derrick. Before I get to Luke 23:43 let me give you a little background of my dealings with this Jw. One of the reasons I wanted to write you was to share my experiences with the Jw community first hand as I saw that there was similarities with their behavior that I don't think is coincidental.
When I was first approached by my Jw co- workers (three) Their first line was "do you want to be immortal"? I laughed and asked if they were vampires? This got me to do a google search on the Jws and I was amazed to say the least at what popped up. The first thing I learned was that they have been predicting Armageddon to come many times. Now at the time I was not really into reading or studying the bible, but even I knew this was wrong. The next thing that popped up was that they believed Jesus and Michael the Arch angel were the same. Again I thought whhaaattt. So armed with a little information I asked this new Jw if in fact he thought Jesus and Michael were the same person and he responded, "No of course not". Hmmm. What about the date setting for Armageddon? He said that never happened. It literally took over a year for him to change his opinion, not from all the info I showed him from the watchtower, but from some of the people in his congregation. Then it became "well they didn't predict it, they just thought the 6000 years since Adam meant something significant".
Then one day he announced that he was able to understand the bible because he received the Holy Spirit and was now thinking clearly. I said in the bible or everything? He said everything. What a joke. If you knew this guy personally, thinking clearly wouldn't come to mind. In fact at work he did something very dangerous that put my safety at risk. His first reaction was to try to explain it away instead of taking responsibility. That seems to be his pattern as a Jw, thinking his intellect is so superior, that he could spin anything like he practices with the bible verses.
Here's a list of some of his outlandish statements that show his Jw background that I've been reading on this forum
I hate the pope
You worship the Devil
Saying that I said something that I never said.
Gods love is not unconditional, you have to earn it
You won't be resurrected to paradise earth
I'm jealous of him because he's so happy
Since I think "I Am" is a proper translation, I don't understand simple English. (this guy immigrated from the Ukraine about ten years ago)
Judas wasn't at the last supper
I don't read the bible and many more.
Now that I got that off my chest, let's get to Luke 23:43. Basically to me it means that he will be with Jesus in heaven. I heard the President of the Moody Bible Institute talk about this (after I formulated my own opinion). He thought that the thief indeed went to heaven that day after Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison. He didn't know how long, but less than a day. I believe that when I die I will go to heaven as well according to John 3:16 and many other verses in the new testament.
From the Jw perspective how could this thief go anywhere? He was not baptized (as a JW) or did any preaching. If he was to be resurrected to paradise earth, how so? Not able to do any of the Jw requirements while dying on the cross next to Jesus. How could he go to heaven? Was he one of the anointed 144000? Probably not.
Thanks Derrick. May God bless you and your family.
Good evening, Kevin. Thank you for following up. I noticed that the first writing from you was public, but this one is marked "Private". I wasn't sure if you meant to send it "Private" or not, but since I'm not sure, I will leave it as such. Its fine if you did....I just noticed you said about wanting to share your experiences with the JW community, and I thought maybe when you said that, you were hoping people could see it. If you want it public, just re-send it to me, and I will copy this answer and it will post in the forum.
You are absolutely correct about the numerous failed predictions, regarding the time of the end. They have made several, and all of those have failed. First, 1914 was supposed to see the END of Armageddon. In fact, the 1914 teaching has undergone several revisions, and today, it is basically believed that 1914 marks the time of Jesus' "return" invisibly. Then, there was 1925, then 1975, etc. As of yet, not one prediction has come to pass, as predicted.
And yes, you are absolutely correct that they teach Jesus and Michael the Archangel, are the same being. You know, that one really astounds me. Here is why...
JWs will come on here and issue challenges such as...."Name one Scripture in the Bible, where it says there is a Trinity"
. And of course, you and I know that the Trinity is not merely based on just one verse, but the teaching of the Scriptures as a whole, on the nature of God. Scripture is clear that there is only one true God, and reveals that there are 3 distinct Persons called "God". But funny, after demanding that one Scripture, they suddenly become very silent when you ask them for that one Scripture, that identifies Jesus as Michael. Or that one Scripture that shows Jehovah "dissolving" Jesus' body, instead of resurrecting it. And they can't give you a Scripture that teaches either belief.
There are far more verses showing Jesus to possess the nature of God, than there are showing Him to be a created Angel named Michael. So what it boils down to, is that they REJECT a teaching about Jesus (His deity) that the Bible shows in many places, and ACCEPT a teaching about Jesus (being Michael), that the Scripture NOWHERE teaches. In other words....they deny what it does teach, and accept what it doesn't teach.
I was also intrigued that this JW would tell you that they did not teach this. Was he lying, or just ignorant of the teachings of his own religion? Or was he merely stating his personal belief that Jesus was not Michael. I had a former JW tell me that he hated having to defend that belief, because he couldn't even convince himself of it, let alone convince anyone else.
And they certainly DID predict the dates for Armageddon. Regarding the prediction for 1975, there was an allowance made for a difference of a few weeks or months, but "not years"
(an actual quote). Meaning....that the end would come in or around 1975, but might be delayed only slightly, but would not be wrong by years. Well, it has now been nearly 40 years.....
It seems your JW co-worker either doesn't present things honestly, or he doesn't know his own religion's teachings or history.
You wrote...."Then one day he announced that he was able to understand the bible because he received the Holy Spirit and was now thinking clearly. I said in the bible or everything? He said everything. What a joke. If you knew this guy personally, thinking clearly wouldn't come to mind."
Well, that sounds quite familiar. Kind of like the guy on here, claiming he can understand every single verse in the Bible, using "human reasoning" and "human logic". Yeah, sure....
Yet, when given the chance to answer some discrepancies between his beliefs and the Scriptures from a "logical" perspective, he has suddenly become very quiet. Some people have more hot air, than actual substance.
In reading your list of statements from some JWs, I was struck by one thing....For whatever reason, getting facts straight is simply not a priority with these people. At least the ones with this mentality. In fact, we saw a JW expert just this past week or so, go one step further....He thinks that he ha such a right to lie and distort, that even when a JW writes and asks him to adjust his conduct or leave the forum, then that person is automatically labeled as an "apostate". Makes you wonder what has to happen to someone's brain, to make them think like that.
And what you said about explaining it away instead of taking responsibility. Yep, seen that one too. These people honestly believe they can say or do anything, and they are not to be held accountable. They can endanger your safety (as in your case), lie about you, or whatever....And its never their fault.
As far as the JW belief about the thief next to Jesus, no, they do not believe he was one of the 144,000. In fact, I want to compare a paragraph from an article from JW.org, and notice how it outright contradicts Jesus' statement to the thief. I see this as a problem....
From JW.org: "What do you think? Will Jesus be here on the earth with the criminal who was sorry for his sins?— No, Jesus will be in heaven ruling as King over the Paradise earth. So Jesus will be with the criminal in that he will raise him from the dead and see that he is taken care of in the Paradise on earth."
Now, the Bible verse....
"And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
So from this, we can deduce that "you will be with me"
, actually just means "I'll take care of you"
Neat, huh? We can make the Bible say whatever we need it to, just to suit our doctrine. And if the Bible doesn't cooperate and say what we need it to, we will just tell you it means something else.
It is truly sad how they can look right at a plain passage of Scripture, and get the opposite meaning of what is right in front of them.
While I believe that the thief didn't enter Heaven until after Jesus ascended on high, I do believe he went into paradise (Abraham's bosom) that very day of his death, and that Jesus went there as well. It is not clear everything that happened in the spirit realm between the cross and the resurrection, but we know that Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth, and that He preached to the spirits in prison, and that He ascended up on high.
So like you, I believe the WT conveniently placed the comma where they wanted it to be, and that they destroy the true meaning of the passage, in so doing.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your observations and your own experiences. Its really amazing how so many of them, have so many of the same traits in their dealings with other people. Granted, its not all of them. But it sounds like some of the ones on here, act just like your co-workers. Are you sure Rando doesn't work where you do?
Like I said, I wasn't sure if you wanted this Private, but if so that is fine. I didn't want to change it, in case you did want it that way.
Take care, and God bless.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
Derrick, please make this question public. Thanks Kevin.
Certainly! Be glad to. It should show up in the forum now. I actually received your request to make it public, 2 times consecutively. I will reply to this one, and reject the other as a "Duplicate".