Jehovah`s Witness/My Question To Eddie....

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Question
Well, we finally saw Eddie admit that he had no quote to give, for any of the statements he falsely attributed to me.  That was predictable.  I challenged him on it, because I knew he would not, and could not provide any.  Maybe one day they will learn not to post lies publicly, but I'm not optimistic.  

It seems they think Jehovah wants them to disobey Him, and throw His commandments concerning lying, out the window, in "defense" of the Organization.  Not sure how anyone gets so messed up in their thinking, to where they actually believe that.  But its apparent, that they do.

At any rate, below is a copy of the question that I just sent to Eddie.  I am posting it here under my own profile, as it is Eddie's tendency to either reject a question, or keep it hidden for as long as possible, by refusing to answer it.  Perhaps if it appears in the forum, it will hasten a response from him.  

At any rate, below is what I sent to him.  It mainly deals with his latest admission of no quotes, his excuses why he couldn't give any, and his false statement concerning a so-called "challenge" to a debate, that he keeps claiming occurred.

Answer
Well, after numerous attempts to get you to do the Christian thing….Produce quotes, or admit you don’t have them and retract your falsehoods, we are finally getting somewhere.  But we’re only halfway there.  I see the admission that you have NO quotes….

YOU:  “So no quote.”  (That was easy enough to predict)

Excellent!  You have just admitted that the things you told this board that I have “said” and “teach”, I have not said nor taught.  You were unable to produce even one statement from me, that would have validated your claims (who didn’t see that one coming?) So, you lied….bottom line.

I think everyone knows that, if you HAD a quote for any of these, then you would have posted it.  There is only one real reason you didn’t….You have none.

But even with your admission that you have no quotes for the things you claimed I had “said” and “taught”, there was still no retraction.  Not very Christian, Eddie….You acknowledge that the statements you attributed to me were made up, but you didn’t retract and apologize for lying.  That doesn’t reflect well on you.

But it gets worse.  Instead of just being a man about it, and admitting what everyone already knows (that you made it all up, and have no quotes), your nasty pride got in the way once again.  That, coupled with your dishonest nature, caused you to still try to imply that the quotes DO exist.  

YOU:  “I don't have the time nor the inclination to go through mounds and mounds of nonsense. Besides everyone here know already what you've been saying for the last 14+ years. It's more than enough time to know where you stand.”

That is correct….People know what I’ve said for the last 14 years and where I stand, which is what made those ridiculous statements you posted about what I “said” and “teach”, all the more ridiculous and laughable.  What you were thinking, is a mystery.  Did you really think I was going to let you get by with that?

But your pride evidently outweighs your standards of honesty, because you lie again, and claim you didn’t give quotes because you didn’t want to hunt for them.  This implies they exist, but they do not.  And if they did, you would have produced them.  And everybody knows it….including you.

So, you finally admit that you have no quotes, but you lie about the reason why.  You still have some work to do, Eddie.

And then this….

YOU:  “In addition, like I said, any quote I produced, you will deny and turn it against me. So there's no point of it. Slick.”

Several things wrong here.  First, there is no way to deny an actual quote, where the link is given to where I said it.  That’s why you see Rando get so frustrated, and refuse to answer questions, as to his own arguments with the GB.  And NOBODY lies like Rando, yet we have seen that even he has no defense against his own words.  

So no, I could not deny an actual quote.  You know that…You just didn’t have any, because you made up the false comments to begin with.  Everybody knows that.


YOU:  if you want, you can refute or correct if what I said is wrong.”

Yeah, I did correct it.  As for “refuting” it, there is nothing to refute.  I didn’t make the comments, you did.  I didn’t invent statements out of the clear blue, you did.  I don’t have to refute what I did not say.  Are you serious?  If you falsely attribute statements to someone and they deny making them, then its on YOU to show that they actually did say it.  Its not on them to show they didn’t.

Think!!

But that was an interesting choice of words you used there, Eddie….“if you want, you can refute or correct if what I said is wrong”

Seriously?  “IF YOU WANT” ?  Are you “CHALLENGING” me to a debate, Eddie?  LOL!  

See, you don’t even apply your OWN ridiculous assertions about my words, to your own statements, when you use the same words.

But you know what?  It’s a moot point, anyway….You provided NO quotes for ANY of the statements you attributed to me.  So, you just refuted yourself.  You didn’t back up even one thing you claimed.  When you claim someone “said” something, its normal practice to show WHERE they said it.  You didn’t.  End of story.  You lied.

Now, that being said, you are free to ask me a question about any of my beliefs that you are curious about, or want to know where I stand.  You can simply write me a question, and ask.  You are NOT free to lie, and claim I “teach” or “said” something that I do not teach, and did not say.


YOU:  “I have no problem with it.”

What you have a problem with, is irrelevant to me.  If you lie, I am going to refute you, whether you have a problem with it, or not.  The issue here, is not you giving me permission to address your lies about me, because that’s just going to happen, regardless.  The issue is, that you are not acting like much of a Christian, when you lie, and then refuse to correct your lies.

Fact is, Edward….You don’t have the right to publicly claim that someone “said” or “taught” something, when they didn’t.  And then fail to produce quotes, when they challenge you to do so.

So yes, you WERE “challenged”…But not to a debate on Hell, but rather, to back up your statements with facts.  And in your Rando-like manner, you failed miserably to do that, and then tried to justify your getting caught, by attacking me further.    


Now, about this so-called “CHALLENGE” to a debate on Hell.  Eddie, you just seem to either enjoy being laughed at, or you have an extreme inability to know when people are laughing at you.  By quoting where I mentioned about a debate, you only shot your own argument down, because it proved that I was merely offering you an opportunity to discuss a topic that you seemed to be itching to discuss, PROVIDED you stayed on topic in my thread, and answered the questions first.

Now, I try to keep under consideration that you have said that English is not your best language.  And quite honestly, that is obvious when one reads your posts.  But I am still amazed that you do not know the difference between an OFFER, and a CHALLENGE.  

So, let me help you…..

1.  OFFER- “present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired”

“an expression of readiness to do or give something IF DESIRED.”

Now, in contrast…..

2.  CHALLENGE- “to call out to duel or combat”

“to invite into competition”

Now, when a person is trying to steer the conversation away from a topic that you are trying to divert to, and then ask that you simply stay on topic and answer their questions directly, and then extend you an OFFER (“if you would like” ) to discuss the topic you are trying to divert to, on another thread, it really isn’t honest to claim they “challenged” you to a debate.

Just typical of your inability to tell the truth, or comprehend anything you read.

So, instead of correcting your 5 lies regarding the quotes you attributed to me, but could not back up with an actual quote, you only added another lie to the mix….That I “challenged” you to a debate, when its obvious I was merely giving you an avenue to discuss a topic with me, that you seemed determined to discuss.  

My questions were not even about Hell, Ed.  You seem to forget that little detail.  In fact, I tried to keep you from using that as a diversion, as I anticipated you would.  So, why do the lies continue?

Let me illustrate even further, the fallacy of Eddie’s claim that he was “challenged” to a debate, when I said we could debate it, if he “would like” .  The other night, my wife and I went out to eat.  In the course of the discussion of where we were going to eat, I told her (because I know she loves Mexican food)….“We can go for Mexican food, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO” .  And funny, but she didn’t look back at me and ask….“Are you CHALLENGING me to go to the Mexican restaurant???”

Good grief, Man…Use your head and stop being so dense, Eddie. Act like you have some reading comprehension, for a change.

You try to twist and distort anything and everything you can, and it just never works for you.  You’re simply not smart enough to pull it off.  I’m going to catch it, every time you try it.

No, this “challenge”, was actually an offer.  You wanted to make the conversation about Hell so badly, and I wanted you to stop diverting and stay on topic.  So, I gave you an avenue to discuss Hell (since you seemed to want to so much), provided that you answered my questions first.   

And if you had quoted the entire context of the remarks, then anybody with a brain can see that.

So instead of doing the right thing and correcting your lies, you only added to it with this lie about my “challenging” you to a debate.  And having Rando write you as “Jeff”, or writing yourself as “Jeff”, is simply not going to change the fact that you lied when you claimed I came at you with a challenge to a debate.

So, about the debate, let’s be clear.  You wanted to make it about Hell, I didn’t.  I anticipated that would be your argument, and that is why I stated in the first place, that I wasn’t interested in discussing some doctrine that YOU don’t like, but that I wanted a direct statement from me that was “defamatory” towards Jehovah God.  And in the absence of any such statement, you diverted the discussion to Hell.

Now on the other hand, I do not “back out” of debates, as you claimed in your latest writing.  If you want to debate the topic, its like I said…I’ll be happy to.  That’s not a challenge, its an offer.  You’re the one bent on discussing it.  I could care less if we do, or not.  You whimped out of the last debate we had, and this one would be no different.  It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.  Its an offer…not a challenge.  Do what you want with it.  If you want to, then we will agree on a format, and get started.  I’ve already seen the type of arguments you use, and believe me, they present no problem at all.

So, you just let me know.  But if we do, then its going to be done right.  I’m not spending all my evenings addressing all the silly arguments you have come up with thus far, unless we agree to a set of rules and guidelines, that are to be abided by.  And first, I want a retraction from you, regarding the quotes that you have just admitted that you don’t have.    


Oh, and this lie needs addressing, as well…..

YOU:  “That's why I no longer include a full quote from him because it's useless. No matter what you quote - even exact words - he's going to call you a LIAR!”

Now, that simply isn’t true, either.  Most of what you write, isn’t.

That isn’t the reason you “no longer include a full quote” from me.  In fact, it has never been your usual practice to do so.  So, what’s with this “no longer”, stuff?  A person who will stoop to making up statements out of the clear blue and attributing them to someone, is not interested in facts or quotes.  They are interesting in slander, and lying.  

There is one reason, and one reason only, that you didn’t “include” any quotes….because you don’t have them.  And the reason you don’t have them, is that they don’t exist.  

So, why did you lie to “Jeff”/Rando/You, as to the reason you don’t give quotes?  We ALL know why you didn’t give them, and had to admit….“So no quote” .

Again, I’m quite certain you would give a quote from me, if you had one.  Because you would want to prove me a liar, by showing that I did say something that I denied saying.  

Nobody is buying that excuse, Eddie.


Another problem with it, is that person cannot “deny exact words”.  As already pointed out, that is why you see Rando get so frustrated when I point out his disagreements with the GB, while hypocritically talking about other Witnesses who have a disagreement with the GB.  Now, NOBODY here can lie like Rando, but yet, even Rando couldn’t deny his own words.  When you show a person’s exact words, and WHERE they said it, there isn’t much they can deny.

So, stop insulting the reader’s intelligence.  You didn’t give them, because you don’t have them.  Plain and simple.  

But there’s yet another problem with your statement.  This…“he's going to call you a LIAR!” .  

So what??  If you provide the quotes, then it doesn’t matter what I say….Everybody would see that you were telling the truth, and that I was lying, no matter how much I denied it.  LOL…Who is falling for that one?

But as it stands now, YOU are the one looking like the liar.  You made comments that were not true, and failed to back up a single one of them, with even one quote.

But Eddie says…“I don’t give quotes because mean ole’ Holland would just deny it anyway, and say I’m lying” .  

Cry me a river!  If you’re not lying, then give the quotes anyway.  Don’t worry about what I might say….Thousands of readers are watching to see if you have any.  And thousands of readers just saw you admit you didn’t.  So guess what…You got called a “liar”, anyway.  And for good reason….you proved yourself to be one.  How many people have to write and tell you, or make comments after your answers, telling you that you harm yourself and the JW religion far more than I do, before the light finally comes on?

Eddie, I think we have all seen what your dishonesty, coupled with your extreme pride, causes you to stoop to.  Why don’t you try some honesty and integrity, for a change?  I don’t think Jehovah has called you to lie on people, in His “defense”.

Your pride has caused you to post all sorts of ridiculous things, as of late. I see now, that you are trying to challenge me to say what I believe about these issues.  Fine…just ask me in a question, and send it to me.  But what I BELIEVE or don‘t believe, has no bearing on the topic.  You claimed I “said” and “teach” them, with no quote of my ever having “said” or “taught” it.  That simply isn’t honest, regardless of what you think I “believe”.  Fact is, you are simply out to attack and slander me, with no regard for telling the truth.  This has been proven time and time again.

Just issue the retraction, and admit that you posted things that were not accurate, with no basis for saying them, and then we can move on.  

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Derrick Holland

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I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

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29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

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I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

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High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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