Jehovah`s Witness/My thoughts about the abuse thing

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Question
Hi Mr Holland!

As you know I don't write often, but just when there is an observation I want to make.  I am a reader of the board and have seen the post about you being an abuser. I've read where that guy posted traits of an abuser and has tried to make out like this is you.  I want to make a comment about that. The characteristics are the furthest thing from you!  These people have a fear of you that cant even explained by rational means. I have read your posts and have seen how you use the scriptures to back up what you are saying.  You don’t back down from them and that is what they hate about you.  They try to bully you and you don’t stand for it. I appreciate your stand. I don’t see how you have the patience to deal with them on a daily basis when they are telling obvious lies and don‘t even seem to care that they are. When someone accuses you of something, you always ask for the proof or links to it.  I’ve seen it too many times and I also see them not be able to give any, too many times. You ask for the evidence, not just deny or ignore it as so many on this board do when asked for quotes or proof.  I have watched you for weeks give an expert here the chance to show you up and he was powerless to show anything from your own words.  But now I see that another person writes that you’re an abuser because you deny what the expert couldn’t even prove happened.  Do you have any idea what is wrong with these people? They seem to be under some kind of spell.  

Never once have I seen you slander another person on this board that you don't agree with. I could go on and on about what they are accusing you of and what you actually are doing. This board isn't to send questions about another expert on here (whether or not you agree with them), it is to help those who are searching for The REAL Truth.  If they think they have that, then why do they have to lie to prove it? I think you expose an insecurity and doubts that they don’t want to admit to having. I think they have a void in their hearts that they are filling up with jealousy, hate and bitterness towards you, when it is actually a void that only Jesus Christ can fill when we realize we are sinners and need a Savior to save us.

Mr Holland, thank you for always being truthful in your answers and showing real Christian character. Something that others on here should take note of.

Answer
Good evening, Sister.  It is great to hear from you again.  I hope you and yours are doing well.

I am also glad you are still reading, and keeping up with the goings on here.  It has reached a new low, as of late.  I do want to thank you for the kind words, and for writing again with your observations.  Its always good to read how others are also seeing through the charade and the foolishness.  I think these people really underestimate the readers of this forum, and actually, insult their intelligence.  They apparently do not think the readers are smart enough to see what has transpired, and figure out the game that they are playing.  

You mentioned about them being under a "spell".  Actually, you are pretty accurate, and it is nothing more than cult mind-control.  Those unaffected by it, see it for what it is.  Those who are under its "spell", can only see things the way they are taught to see them.  

Like where you pointed out the ridiculous inconsistency of Danny's writings about "abuse", for instance.  You know, ANY nut can copy and paste from a web site.  That doesn't require much intelligence at all.  But I noticed especially, that Danny said he was going to share with the board his "findings" about me, but then merely copied and pasted the traits of an abuser, without ever showing one instance of these traits being exhibited here.  Wonder what happened to his "findings"?  LOL.

Now, before your question came in, I had actually typed a response to his "abuse" post.  I will be interested in seeing his response.  What I hope will happen, is that he will actually show real examples of my "abusive" behavior in this forum, rather than just copying from a web site, and then TELLING everyone that I am an "abuser".  I too, copied and pasted from a web site, about "Chronic Liars".  Now unlike Danny, I will be able to, and happy to show real examples from their actions, of the very things brought out in the article that I quoted.  I suspect Danny will follow the example of Eddie....Provide nothing.

This was also addressed in my response, but I had to laugh so hard, when Danny said a sign of an abuser, is that the "abuser" will claim that things were never said and events never occurred.

What a joke!  I don't guess it occurred to the clown, that some events and some words REALLY DIDN'T occur...lol.  And if they didn't, why should this fact not be stated?  And why does stating the fact that they never occurred, make a person an "abuser"?  

In fact, as you pointed out how you have been watching this thing unfold, we have witnessed for nearly a month now, that Eddie was unable to provide ANY evidence that this claims ever were said by me, or taught by me.  

Like I pointed out in a recent posting, about how they never show an example of anything....

"This is so predictably typical of what we have all come to expect from these clowns…Claims of NUMEROUS examples, but listing none.  Try as I might, I was unable to find even one example given by DG, showing an example of this so-called “abuse”.  Just a general statement, telling us that there are “numerous occasions”. These clowns are all the same.  They run their mouths to each other, tell their lies, and when challenged for an example, they change the subject.  So typical."

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2015/1/poor-abused-eddie.htm

That's what makes Danny's latest post so funny...Even after the last one, pointing out how he gave no examples of "abusive" behavior, he comes right back and says he is going to post his "findings", and STILL posts no examples of "abusive" behavior.

It must be really frustrating to be them.  Hating someone so much, but having absolutely nothing on them, and having to resort to lies and childish posts like what we are seeing from Danny. And then when challenged to produce evidence, only being able to REPEAT the same thing over and over, yet show nothing.  Poor kid.


You wrote...."I have watched you for weeks give an expert here the chance to show you up and he was powerless to show anything from your own words.  But now I see that another person writes that you’re an abuser because you deny what the expert couldn’t even prove happened."

Again, its refreshing to know that the readers see through the foolishness for what it is.  You are correct....When Eddie first printed his latest batch of lies, I immediately contacted him about it, and asked for either quotes, or a retraction.  He was able to produce NO quotes at all...for ANY of his comments.  I knew that going in.  Well, when he saw that I wasn't about to let up on the pressure, Mr. Garcia let his pride get in the way, and tried to insult this board by saying that he doesn't give quotes, because I would deny them and call him a "liar".  

What a liar he truly is.  See, I called you one anyway, Mr. Garcia.  And its because you lied.  

Marie, I am glad people like you, see this for what it is.  It really bugs them when people like you and others, call them out.  But they just can't help themselves, when it comes to the lying.

But the point I wanted to get to, was how they define "abuse".  I pointed this out the other day, and their subsequent posts, only confirmed what I had said.  

This, from a few days ago, is how they define "abuse"....

"But here’s what is funny….The way these clowns define “abuse”.  In fact, in reading the forum, I think its obvious what they define as “abusive”.

1. They believe it is perfectly acceptable for them to lie…about anything they wish to lie about.  If they lie about your teachings, and you correct them, you are “abusing” them.

2. If they make up false quotes and claim you said them, and you ask them for the quote, they feel perfectly free to refuse to give it and make excuses for why they don’t have it.  You’re just supposed to take their lies and false accusations, and say nothing.  If you challenge them for proof, they reject your question like cowards.  

And if you keep re-sending the question, and inform them that you will keep re-sending it until they either answer it or retract their lies, then you are “abusing” them.  

After all, its their perfect right as “people of the truth”, to tell lies.  You should never object to that.  If you do, then you are demonic, and obviously have the traits of an "abuser".  

3. If they slander other JWs for not fully agreeing with the Governing Body, and you point out that they themselves disagree with the Governing Body, then this is also “abuse” .  You are not to point out their hypocrisy."


And after Danny's latest post, I guess we will have to add one more description of "abuse" to the list....


4.  If you point out that they made up statements/events (even when they did), and you assert that those things are false and never happened (when they didn't), then you are "abusing" them.  Don't ever dispute their lies...This is emotional abuse of the worst kind.  They have every right to lie.

Then, right after that, someone writes and tells Eddie that he is being "persecuted"...LOL.  Honestly, can you believe that?  It is "abuse" if you prove they are lying, and "persecution" if you challenge them to produce evidence for their lies, and don't let them divert their way out of it?  Its perfectly fine, mind you, for THEM to lie about you.  It is perfectly fine for them to slander, gossip, and distort your words.  But if you say anything, you are "abusing" and "persecuting" them.  Unbelievable.  Cult mentality at its finest.

So, I think we have a pretty good general idea of their mentality, which brings us to your next question....


YOU:  "Do you have any idea what is wrong with these people?"

Question of the year, right there.  Again, it goes back to the cult mind control.  They are unable to think rationally, or function mentally, like normal people.  In their minds, the Society must be defended at all costs, even if you have to disregard Biblical commands to do it.  Suddenly, the Organization becomes more important than God Himself, when God can be disobeyed, in defense of the Organization.  There is no rational way to explain it.  

Of course, it is perfectly fine for those in their little "clique", to disagree with the Organization, correct the NWT, and argue with its teachings.  Its just not okay for anyone outside their little group, to do it.

I don't know exactly what to call it, Marie.  But they would definitely be an interesting study, for some mental health expert.  


I want to thank you for your observations, about my desire not to slander, as well.  I'm glad you noticed that.  That is one they love to accuse me of, usually in the same writing where they are slandering me with their lies.  

But I think you really hit on something here....

"I think you expose an insecurity and doubts that they don’t want to admit to having."

That makes sense.  It would explain a lot, wouldn't it?  There is really no rational explanation for it, otherwise.  Lying, to defend the "truth"....Who would ever have thought of that?  Claiming that a person "teaches" something, but unable to show one time in 14 years, where they ever have.  Saying you're going to show how a person is an abuser, but then showing nothing at all.  Attacking from every angle, while NEVER answering direct questions....Just making up lies.  

Maybe they do have some doubts deep down, and those doubts and questions are being brought to the surface, and they don't want to face it.  Why else would they be so full of hate?  Why else would they think they are somehow bosses of this forum, and that they can tell a person that they should, or shouldn't be here?  

They're out of their minds.

All we can do, Marie, is pray that they fill that void like you said....Through a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.  It is truly sad to see them trade what He has for them, for allegiance to an Organization, that they have to lie and slander, in order to "defend".  

Again Marie, it is great to hear from you, as always.  Keep in touch, and keep reading!  It should get really interesting over the next few days.

Take care!

Derrick  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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