Jehovah`s Witness/No he did not!!!!!!

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Question
Mr. Holland, did I just see what I think I saw? I know these people have attacked you for a long time and I also know they are not very truthful people either. But I am so surprised at what I just saw Rando do today.  Or am I wrong in my assumption?  If I am please tell me. But it looks for all the world like he just quoted you, but left off part of the quote and then said you were contradicting yourself.  Here is what I am talking about.

“Here is what Derrick Holland is teaching. "Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell” , which in fact, is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere." http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2015/2/old-testament-believers

“Since DH admits the Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell” then claims in the same sentence "is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere" why the contradiction? He must be telling us that "good people go to an eternal burning hell also"! This guy is NUTS!”

That is what he wrote, but I knew that you would not just contradict yourself like this and it did not sound like anything that I have seen you say.  But he gave a link so I clicked on it. And I saw where you actually said this:

“Eddie just had to be addressed for making the false claim that Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell” , which in fact, is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere.”

It looks like to me that he cut out the first part of your sentence and removed the part where you said Eddie made a “false claim”, which was that Baptists teach “only bad people go to Hell”.  He cut that part out and tried to make it seem you were making both statements, when you were really answering Eddie’s comment to that affect.

Or am I missing something really obvious here? Maybe I am because I just cannot believe someone would do something that low down, and then be dumb enough to give the link where it could be seen what he did!  What do you think?

One more thing. I actually have been following this discussion about the Baptist belief on Hell, so I had an idea to do something that I thought would give more support to what you were saying about it.  I went over to the Baptist board and asked four different Baptists there who was right about their teaching on Hell.  I already knew what they would tell me because I know what the Bible teaches too.  But I thought having more Baptist voices in on it would only show that you truly do know the teaching better than some Jehovahs Witness who is not even a Baptist.  I told them that you had said that being good or bad is not the deciding factor, and that a Jehovahs Witness here was saying that the Baptist teaching was that only bad people go to Hell.

I think you will be interested in the replies I have gotten so far.

Baptist expert Billy Kryger said this:  

“It is true that "being a bad person" does not destin a person to hell, just as "being a good person" does not mean you'll go to heaven. The truth is that it is faith in the shed blood of The Lord Jesus Christ that secures one's salvation.
Consequently, it is the Baptist who answered your question correctly--and I'm sure he would tell you this--not because it is the Baptist" answer, but because it is what the Bible says.

Here are some Scripture references: John 3:36; Revelation 20:14, 15; Revelaton 21:8;
God bless you! <br><br>Because of Him,<br><br>Pastor Billy Kryger<br>1 Cor. 15:57, 58



Expert Cooper Abrams said:

“The Baptist pastor is right because that is what the
Bible teaches.”

Cooper P. Abrams, III
Romans 12:1-2


Expert Don Howe said:

“Baptist believe that salvation “involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification” (SBC website).”

“Marie, salvation is by accepting the Lord Jesus as Lord and Saviour plan simple. It has nothing to do with one is good and earning one's way to Heaven. So Baptist do not believe “only bad people go to Hell.” Romans 3:23 states “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” This includes all people good or bad.”

“We can not earn our Salvation. Point to remember: Good people go to HELL, but ONLY BORN AGAIN PEOPLE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB GO TO HEAVEN. Plain and simple. We can EARN our SALVATION BY BEING GOOD.”

I have not heard back from the fourth one yet, but I am guessing he will confirm what these other three said, which is the same thing you said.  I just thought you would like to see this.

I just want to say again that I think you do a nice job here of standing for what you believe, and showing what is false.  Don’t get down just because they attack you. Its only because you are giving them the truth and it makes them very upset. Keep standing for the Bible and God will use you.

Answer
LOL!  Yes Ma'am, he certainly did.  I love the title, by the way.  Hang around here long enough, and you will see a lot more of that.  But you seem surprised...Why?  You said yourself that you know he lies.  But I think I get it....Its one thing to lie and refuse to give any quotes, and then claim they're there but you just don't want to look for them, like Eddie does.  But its quite another thing to lie, and then be dense enough to actually give the link for people to see that you lied.  I think I understand your surprise.  I mean, who would be THAT careless?  

Poor people...If they don't give a link, they look like liars, and if they do, they are proven to be liars.  

Truthfully, that is not the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last.  It is a sign of desperation.  Once again, a JW misstated our Biblical belief, and was shown as dishonest.  So, Rando had to come to the rescue.  

So yes, Mr. Rando, the “honest“, faithful JW, property of the “Slave”, and upstanding member of the Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the “only true Christians walking the earth”, willfully edited the quote and omitted the above phrase, in order to give a false meaning.

So, you’re correct…..the ACTUAL quote (before Rando’s tampering), read this way….

“Eddie just had to be addressed for making the false claim that Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell” , which in fact, is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere.”

But Rando went in there, and omitted the words....“Eddie just had to be addressed for making the false claim that…”

Which made the revised "quote" read...."Here is what Derrick Holland is teaching. "Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell”, which in fact, is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere."

Followed by a straw man argument, based on an altered quote....“Since DH admits the Baptists teach that “only bad people go to Hell” then claims in the same sentence "is NOT taught by ANY Bible-believing Baptist group anywhere" why the contradiction?”

But as you saw, the "contradiction" was a result of Rando's quote tampering.  

Marie, you have not been here nearly as long as I have, so I can understand why it might shock you that someone could be so blatantly dishonest.  And quite honestly, I am not surprised by it from a moral standpoint, because Rando does not have scruples.  But I am a little surprised that he would have been dumb enough to actually provide the link where his blatant dishonesty would be immediately found out.  But he has done stuff like this for so long, that I am not the least bit surprised by it...the dishonest aspect of it, anyway.  

Since he can find no actual lie, he has to invent one.  Don’t you just love Eddie, on one hand, talking about my “parsing words” and being “slick”, and then looking the other way when his own buddy is such a blatant liar, actually TAMPERING with a quote?  You would be hard pressed to find anyone more hypocritical than those 2.


But there IS a side of his dishonesty here, that is quite amusing.  When a person practices lying, it is always going to backfire in their face, at some point.  We just saw it.

In the military, there is something called “friendly fire”.  It is defined as….

“Discharge of a military weapon that injures or kills a member of one's own armed forces or an ally”

Now, that is what Rando just did to Eddie.  Its funny how those guys just love to twist words around, and try to make it appear that Richard and I are contradicting each other, when we’re not.  And yet, they contradict each other without even knowing it.  It happened with the 1874 debacle, and it has just happened again.  Did you catch it?

Eddie has been claiming for days now, against all evidence, that Baptists such as myself, believe and teach that "only bad people go to Hell" , yet Rando just knocked the legs out from under him, with this comment.....

RANDO:  “Now he is claiming NOT “only bad people go to Hell”? Yes, you are reading this right, he doesn't believe only bad people go to Hell but "good people also"!!

Now, it doesn't take a genius to see that these statements are contradictory.  Eddie claims I teach that Hell is "just for bad people" , and Rando claims "he doesn't believe only bad people go to Hell but "good people also"!!

I'll bet Eddie has been wondering all morning, if I was going to catch that little contradiction.  I did.  


Now Marie, I applaud you for what you did in regards to the Baptist forum.  Honestly, you did not have to do that, because I know very well what the Bible teaches, and what the Baptist teaching is.  But by consulting these brothers in Christ, you actually made a strong point, even stronger.  Whether people like Eddie and other JWs AGREE with our teaching or belief, is irrelevant.  But by supplying these replies from other Baptist ministers who knew nothing of the conversation here beforehand, you only proved that Eddie is in error, in a much stronger way.

I don't visit the Baptist forum but only occasionally, but I took a look at the Baptist forum today, to see the entire replies, and I only saw 2 of them posted.  I will keep looking for the others to post.

At any rate, thank you for sharing with me what they said, which only confirmed what I have been saying.

You know, I honestly don't know why Eddie would have been so foolish as to argue what Baptists teach, with a Baptist minister.  Nor did I appreciate his snide remark that I somehow claim to be the most qualified here.  That is ridiculous.  There are at least 2 other Baptists here, who are every bit as qualified to answer question about Baptist doctrine, as I am.  

No Eddie, I am not more qualified than them.  But I AM more qualified than YOU.

Now, its one thing if he wants to argue with just ONE Baptist preacher(me) about what Baptists teach....that's ridiculous enough.  But after providing these quotes, Marie, let's see if he wants to argue with 5 Baptist preachers.  If I know Eddie, he will still claim that he is right about our teaching, and that all 5 Baptist ministers simply don't know as much about Baptists as he does.

That guy is one prideful individual.

But at any rate, this would prove to any SENSIBLE individual, that Eddie merely doesn't know what he's talking about.  He usually doesn't.  Even about his own religion, he doesn't.

Fact is, did you see the about-face he just did on JWs having ever taught that Jesus was to be worshipped?  Now, I WILL be fair and give him credit...At least he DID recant on that one.  And it didn't take forever, like it normally does with him.  I refuse to rub a guy's nose in an honest mistake, and I have far more respect for a person when they admit error and correct it, than I do when they're in error, but stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it.  So, at least Eddie did retract his latest bit of false information, about the WT and Jesus receiving worship.  

But I believe this is also in large part, due to the fact that Richard gave an in-depth analysis of the subject, and gave REAL quotes from Eddie's own WT literature, that Eddie simply could not talk his way out of.  And Eddie's questioner also provided quotes, as well.  I mean, what COULD he do, besides retract?  The evidence was right there.

I think the telling part of it is, that he first told the questioner that the claims of Jesus being worshipped, were without "merit" , because it came from "apostates".  But then, after the quotes were given and he couldn't deny them, he then tells the questioner that he "must be a frequent visitor to these websites moderated by critics and apostates alike. That's why you have these info" .

In other words....First, it must be a lie, because its found on apostate sites.  But then, its "Well, you wouldn't even have known these FACTS, if you hadn't been visiting apostate sites".

Does that not tell you that there are facts about their history that they will NOT tell you on their own?  Why chastise a person for getting the facts from an apostate web site, if the information is true, and a JW will not give it to you?????


Well Sister, I want to say in closing, that I appreciate your writing and for supplying this information.  And don't worry...I don't get discouraged with them.  They need Jesus.  I may have to deal with their lies in harsh way sometimes, but I love them as people, and pray for their salvation.  Deep down, they know what they're doing is wrong.  No way they can't know it.  In the end, what they do with Jesus, is their ultimate choice.  But they need to know the errors of the WT, and the truth of God's Word, nonetheless.  They can get upset, hate me, lie on me, whatever.  But truth is truth.  I appreciate your encouragement, and your prayers.

Take care, and God bless you and your family.  Keep warm during these frigid temps, and the weather that is heading our way.  Talk soon!

Derrick  

Jehovah`s Witness

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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