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Jehovah`s Witness/So this is what brainwashed looks like

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QUESTION: Hello Derick, I had to write, because the last couple of posts here by these Jw's are just too much. Its actually quite sad. I have heard the word "brainwashed" use many many times, but I never actually saw it play out. Now I have. Its getting worse too. Mr. Rando writes you about being on the Jw forum, and makes claims against you saying "other experts intimidate him" and how they are a "threat to his personal doctrines"! Lol! Is he for real? Does he realize YOU CAME HERE!!!!!!!! If you were so concerned about being "intimated" or "threatened" why would you come here???? Its amazing how they put their foot in their mouth time and time again. The fact that they don't recognize it, is what proves they really are brainwashed. I feel sorry for them. I enjoyed the broken cookie jar analogy. I thought, if there were 6 people in the room, and 5 of them were Witnesses (one with actual crumbs all over his face). the Jw's on this forum, without a second thought, would balme the Non Witness for breaking the cookie jar. In their minds, there would be no question. They would need no proof of any kind because that is how their trained to think. They have "sentenced" and found all Non Witnesses guilty with no trial. Who does that? Just look at that Mrs. T. She has no problem lashing out at you with such hatred and contempt, yet says nothing about her buddies (who are worse). Perfect example of the double standard they live by. Again, this is pure mind control. They know nothing else. They have nothing else. They cannot prove anything they say, because its just not true. No wonder they are so angry and defensive. This must be an absolute horrible way to live your life. Again, all we can do is pray for them, and hope they find some sort of "awakening" and be at peace. Take Care.

ANSWER: Hello Rita, thank you for writing.  I must say that I always like hearing from you, because your posts provide a great deal of insight into the mindset of these people.  

Did you happen to see this gem from Rando? I'll quote it for you, just in case you didn't....

"Long time no hear.  Glad to hear from you Brother.  Imposing is an interesting word as they probably don't exist.  I expect the Pastor and maybe he was pretending to be his wife who in turn, was pretending to be these women, are just too many "personalities" for Legion to handle?  After all there is a whole choir in their.  Just ask them. lol....

I made this statement who was claiming to be his wife.  Not that I really know, because after his debacle, he never claimed his wife's name in public.  I wrote HER(?):

"I hope you don't have any knowledge of anyone writing under the names (Marie), (Linda), (Rita), or (Dee) to slander Jehovah's Witnesses.   Actually, the list is rather large after fifteen years of constant harassment.  If you should know anyone doing these things, I kindly ask you, to ask them to stop."  That was posted on 2/20/2015.  http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2015/2/liar-1.htm

On 2/21/2015 Rita  all of a sudden shows up!  http://en.allexperts.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/2015/2/informative-response.ht

Funny thing SHE(?) talks and writes just like Derrick Holland using the same phrases.  Read it for a good laugh."

Rita, does this guy STILL think you are me, and now apparently, that my wife is actually you?  Didn't you write that clown before, and prove to him that you are not me?  I wonder why he still clings to that lie?


As always, your observations are right on target.  The question is, how does a person make them realize just how ridiculous they appear to sensible and intelligent people such as yourself?  Do you think they even have the ability to wrap their mind around it?  

Yes, you're correct....The latest batch of humor, uh I mean, POSTS from the JW side, are just too much.  I don't even know where to start, as to which has been the most over-the-top....Eddie desperately trying to deny that he sends questions to himself, Rando trying to juggle 2 profiles on 2 forums while writing to himself back-and-forth, Ms T arguing with camera screen shots, or Rob writing in with his opinions on subjects he knows slightly less than nothing about.  Its really hard to know where to begin with these people.  

You said...."Its actually quite sad. I have heard the word "brainwashed" use many many times, but I never actually saw it play out. Now I have. Its getting worse too."

Yes, what you have seen playing out here recently, is nothing short of brainwashing and cult mentality in action.  Ms T has given enough examples of it, to last for years.  I've never seen anyone quite like her, with a complete inability to grasp the obvious.  

And that's the thing....Bible-believing Christians who have studied the cults, have pointed out for years the levels of brainwashing displayed by members of various cults.  And you know, I could post something here and say that JWs exhibit signs of being brainwashed, but somebody could always come back and say "That's just your opinion...prove it!" .  But it seems that these 3 JWs in particular, are actually PROVIDING the proof for us!  I don't even have to say anything, except "Well, just read this post, or read that post" .  

They post, people read, and then the people reading just shake their heads at what they've just read, and say "WOW!!" .  Truthfully, I would be embarrassed to post the stuff that these people actually type out, and think they have given a great answer.  I couldn't bring myself to hit the "Send" button, if I had typed that nonsense.  Its almost like we point out the cult mentality, and Ms. T will write a post, which basically amounts to "You want to prove we're brainwashed?  How can I help?"

Its truly amazing.

And yes, like you pointed out, it is definitely getting worse.  

Now Rando's sudden decline, I can understand....He's got too many irons in the fire.  What, with trying to have a fake profile on the Baptist forum, and keep up his lying here too, while trying to remember the last lie he told, he has made several slip ups as of late, proving that he is the impostor on the Baptist forum.  He has been caught several times.  And honestly, that dishonest stunt he pulled by using my wife's name to send questions to other experts, might have been MUCH more effective had he not stupidly used MY name to write questions, as well.  If his goal was to cause trouble in my marriage, or plant a seed of doubt in my mind, then sending questions under my name was the dumbest thing he could have done.  Because I KNOW I didn't send those, and neither did she, for that matter.  But seriously, if you want a guy to believe his wife is sending questions, don't turn right around and send questions under the guy's name, too.  That's a dead give-away.  

That's Rando's problem...He doesn't even have the brains that it takes to successfully be wicked, although he sure tries hard.


You said...."Mr. Rando writes you about being on the Jw forum, and makes claims against you saying "other experts intimidate him" and how they are a "threat to his personal doctrines"! Lol! Is he for real? Does he realize YOU CAME HERE!!!!!!!! If you were so concerned about being "intimated" or "threatened" why would you come here????"

Yeah, that's the thing...Basically, to be blunt, Rando is a full-fledged idiot.  If anyone is intimidated, its him, and I can prove it.  Would you like to see the archives of questions I have sent him about his own comments/beliefs in this forum, that he rejects and sends back, because he is scared to answer them?  I have countless rejected questions from him.

Futhermore, I have offered to have a civil and intelligent, and mutually respectful discussion on any doctrine he wishes, and yet he refuses.  Rando is scared of actually having to defend his own stupid statements.  

And I'm sure you saw here not long ago, that a reader named Darryl Murphy offered to engage Rando in discussion on Rando's FAVORITE subject, the Trinity, and Rando was too intimidated to take him up on it.

And as for intimidation, this "Jay Barns" (Rando's other profile) on the Baptist forum, is so intimidated by me for asking him a perfectly legitimate question, that he now apparently refuses to answer ANY questions showing from the state of North Carolina, whether I sent them or not, because he thinks it might be me...LOL.

And not only does Jay Barns (Rando) refuse ANY questions from North Carolina, but Jay Barns (Rando) also takes the time to write 16 questions and sign my name to them, and then send them to the Question Pool, in order to lie and tell people I've been harassing him, when he sent those questions himself....So, who is "intimidated" here?

But here's the kicker, and I just noticed this one....Jay Barns (Rando) is now taking questions OUT OF the Baptist forum Question Pool that HE HIMSELF originally put in there, because he is scared that I will answer them!  That's right.  Last week sometime, he sent a perfectly good question from someone named Lou, on the rapture and end times, and put it in the Question Pool.  Nothing confrontational about the question at all.  But because he's a JW and not a Baptist, he didn't have a clue how to answer it, because he doesn't know Baptist doctrine.  Well, I thought it was a great question from Lou, so I pulled it out and answered it.  Well, now Barns is scared I'm going to answer all the questions he refuses, so he starts going in and taking them out....lol.

Now, who does it sound like is "intimidated"??

So no, Rando is not "for real".  There is nothing "real" about Rando.  He's as big of a phony, as you will ever run across.  That is the reason he keeps his location and his identity hidden from the public.  He's a Baptist one day, and a JW the next.  He's a liar, and a phony.  And his games have been exposed.  And the only people who haven't gotten it figured out, are him, Eddie, and Ms. T.  Everybody else has him pegged.

Yes, you're correct....I came here.  In fact, I have been here longer than any of them, who now think they are somehow the administrators of this forum, and can boss everyone around.

But as has been pointed out, when people act and lash out like they do, there's one reason for it....They're hiding something that they don't want exposed.  If their belief is so air-tight and really the "truth", then what is it that they're desperately hoping the readers don't find out, and why go to such great lengths to silence someone, even trying to attack their character?

I think the reason is pretty obvious.  Because they really aren't as confident as they want you to think.


You said..." Its amazing how they put their foot in their mouth time and time again. The fact that they don't recognize it, is what proves they really are brainwashed. I feel sorry for them."

You are exactly right.  They literally do not have the capacity to grasp how they're perceived.  Remember the example that we discussed awhile back, about the Emperor's New Clothes?  There are some amazing parallels there.

And I agree with you...It truly is sad.  I feel sorry for them, too.  I often wonder what happened in their lives, that they were willing to just hand over their minds like that.  But then, to not even be able to see what everybody else does...Its really tragic.


You said..." I enjoyed the broken cookie jar analogy. I thought, if there were 6 people in the room, and 5 of them were Witnesses (one with actual crumbs all over his face). the Jw's on this forum, without a second thought, would balme the Non Witness for breaking the cookie jar. In their minds, there would be no question."

Its really interesting that you would say that, because again, this is insightful.  They would DEFINITELY either accuse the non-Witness of breaking the jar, even if they KNEW deep down that it was a fellow Witness who broke the jar.  And you know why?  Because as their minds would reason, The non-Witness hates Jehovah anyway, and since he's an opposer, then its fine to just blame him for whatever happens.  We know who really broke the jar, but its our dirty little secret.  After all, we have an Organization of "truth" to defend here, and if we have to, we will LIE to do it!!"

Because you know what?  There is not a question in my mind, that deep down, they KNOW who is doing the lying.  But because that person is wearing a JW label, and "defending the Organization", then they are content to just claim that its us doing the lying....even when they know better.

Or, they could just claim that some "apostate" broke the cookie jar.  And then you could point out that it wasn't the "apostate" that actually broke the jar, but rather, the "apostate" only stated the fact that a JW broke the jar.  Then, it would somehow be the non-JWs fault, that the JW broke the jar.

I mean, we just saw this very thing that you are pointing out, in Ms. T's post....She actually implied, and has on other occasions as well, that its MY fault that they lie, because well, I'm here.  And if I weren't here, then they wouldn't have to do the stuff they do.  

Its truly mind-boggling, Rita.  Their wicked actions are never their fault...Its always the fault of a non-Witness, when they refuse to be truthful in their writings.


You wrote..."They would need no proof of any kind because that is how their trained to think. They have "sentenced" and found all Non Witnesses guilty with no trial."

"Trained to think"....I couldn't have said it any better.  That is it exactly!  

Why is "proof" even necessary, when the thought process has already been decided?  

Yes Rita, what you are seeing, is truly brainwashing being played out right in front of us.


You asked..."Who does that? Just look at that Mrs. T. She has no problem lashing out at you with such hatred and contempt, yet says nothing about her buddies (who are worse). Perfect example of the double standard they live by. Again, this is pure mind control. They know nothing else. They have nothing else."

Again, so very true.  Ms. T is the perfect example of hypocrisy.  Now, I really hate to say that, but facts are facts.  You can see it in her latest rants.  You noticed it....She claims I should have "proof" before saying that Rando is Jay Barns, which Rando has already given us proof.  But then, she turned right around and claimed I had written those 16 questions that were placed in the Question Pool, and did she have PROOF?  No, she did not.  In fact, there isn't any, because I didn't write them.  So, OF COURSE I removed them!  What person in their right mind, would allow fraudulent questions in their name, to remain in the Pool, if they had the ability to remove them?  She wouldn't, if it were her.  And neither would I.

Plus, she accused my friend Kevin and myself, of "hiding a private question" that we didn't mention, when it was the very same one that was already posted, and one of the 2 that I TOLD HER existed! And do you think she offered so much as an apology, or even a simple admission of..."Maybe I misunderstood" ?

Uhm, no.  She's full of pride, and like you said, her hatred has blinded her to the point that she exhibits an extreme double standard.  And as you pointed out....The guilt of non-Witnesses, has already been determined.  

Rita, that was a very insightful observation on your part, and I want to thank you for bringing it out.

And I can give you an example, just in the last 2 days, from her own writing, of the very thing you just said.  Let me quote what you said again, and then I'll quote her.  This is proof that your observation is right on the money.....


YOU:  "They would need no proof of any kind because that is how their trained to think. They have "sentenced" and found all Non Witnesses guilty with no trial."


Now, for her statement, that proves what you said is correct....


MS. T:  "Mr. Holland decides to join the Baptist forum?  Why now...  My belief is so that he could clear out the question pool of his harassments of another expert.  I'm sure he'll deny that.  But it's irrelevant."

Did you catch that?  Its EXACTLY what you pointed out in your comment!  I mean, you could not have hit the target dead-center, any more than what you did.

Notice she gives HER "BELIEF", and then with the lowering of the gavel, decides that her "belief" constitutes the FACT of the matter.  Notice she said that even if I deny what she just said is her "belief", it is "irrelevant"....Obviously meaning, it has no merit.  The only side that has merit, is HER "belief".  

Why would the other side, automatically be "irrelevant", or have no merit?  Simple...Because it disagrees with a pre-decided "truth", in the mind of the only person who's "belief" matters.

Like you said..."They would need no proof of any kind because that is how their trained to think. They have "sentenced" and found all Non Witnesses guilty with no trial."

Rita, can you believe anybody would even type something like she did there, basically admitting what you just pointed out?  

And another thing....Aren't you glad this woman is not a Judge in our legal system, with thinking like that?  Can you imagine a person on trial for murder, who happened to disagree with the JW religion?  Can't you just hear her now...."It is my "belief" that you are guilty of murder.  Now, you may deny it, but that is irrelevant.  We don't need evidence or proof of your guilt, because I believe you're guilty.  Any other opinion, is irrelevant" .

Again, cult mind control at its worst.


Now, you mentioned how she lashed out at me in response to my writing her.  That's why I posted it.  You saw it. Had she just replied with some level of civility, and acknowledged that she would read my post and make corrections for any error on her part, there would have been no problem. But you saw it..."Stop harassing me!!" , she says.

Oh, and she wrote me a 2nd reply today, just so that the correspondences could post.  Why, I don't know, as they have already posted.  Not sure what her motive is there.

But yes, you're correct....She is the perfect example of what mind control does to a person.  They can make themselves look completely foolish, and they think they have done something great.


You wrote..."They cannot prove anything they say, because its just not true. No wonder they are so angry and defensive. This must be an absolute horrible way to live your life."

You're right, once again.  That really IS what irritates them so much...They HAVE to try and make a liar out of ones like Richard and myself, because the facts we give are too damaging to their Organization, but we refuse to lie and give them anything they can use, so they have to invent something.  How truly miserable they must be.  

Rita, I just laugh at the daily postings, supposedly from readers.  They're downright hilarious.  They usually start out with something like...."SINCE Derrick Holland believes/teaches...(insert something Derrick Holland does not believe)..., then, blah, blah, blah" .  I always just laugh, because they can't even take an actual statement that I made, and use it.  They have to invent one that I never made, and then say "Since Derrick Holland says...." ...LOL...That sure is effective, huh?  

If it weren't for straw man arguments, they wouldn't have anything to write about.  I would feel so stupid, if I were them.  The ONLY lie they can come up with, is one THEY INVENTED?  LOL...That's just too funny!

Like you said, no wonder they act like they do, and are so on edge.  They are miserable on the inside.


You said..."All we can do is pray for them, and hope they find some sort of awakening and be at peace"

Yes, that is about it...and keep sharing the truth of the Gospel with them.

Funny, but I told Ms T that I would pray for her, the other day.  And she came back and told me not to pray for her, because "We don't serve the same God" .

Well, I took that opportunity to tell her that she was right about that.  The God I serve, has made it quite clear that He does not tolerate lying, and that liars have no part with Him, but the "god" she serves, allows them to lie and slander others.  

She didn't care for that, but its true, nonetheless.  She told me that her God was Jehovah, but I don't recall reading where Jehovah tolerates lies, and false accusations to be spoken in His name.  

Again Rita, I want to thank you for writing me.  You always provide some very insightful thoughts in your letters.  Keep reading, and observing.  Its truly an enlightening experience, to witness first hand in this forum, the power of cult brainwashing.  Like you said, all we can do is pray for them.

God bless you and your family, Rita.  Take care, and write soon!


Derrick







 





---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Derrick, I laughed at how Rando thinks because I wrote you the day after he mentions me, that I am you! What kind of logic is that? I am flattered he thinks we have the same writing style, though, mine is always rushed, hence, the errors. The funny thing is these particular Witnesses always want readers to think "they cracked the case"! Its really quite amusing. All they really do is make themselves look foolish. Do you see anyone on this forum actually asking them serious questions so they can "learn" about their organization? How many have actually clicked on their links (which they are instructed to provide)? How many really want to become a Witness from this forum (or even their door to door intrusions)? I would be confident in saying probably NONE. There is a reason their numbers are so low compared to actual Christian faiths. Many just don't accept what they teach, because it doesn't make sense, and they cant really support what they say with any logic or truth. Just because they are taught (not from God or the Bible) but from the WTS that this is true, doesn't make it so. How convenient for the WTS to supply their members with their own version of the Bible! I am sure this is much easier for them using their own tweeked version, wouldn't you say? They are so many red flags within this organization, how do they not see them? Fortunately, most can, this explains their low numbers. The fact remains, it is not so much you they fear, but what you say and the manner in which you say it. It puts them to shame. It exposes the real truth about them. This is why they are so irate at you being here. As you know, Witnesses do not like to be challenged...especially Mrs. T. All I can say about her is. Wow. (and not in a complimentary way) The 3 Jw's always mentioned all show signs of psychosis by brainwashing. Their personal temperaments is how it is displayed. This is how it looks to a non brainwashed person. You- Hello Mrs.T, i just want to tell you you made a mistake the other day, my name is Derrick, not Donald. Mrs. T- QUIT HARASSING ME!!!! You believe in hell fire, and the trinity! Get off our page and go where you belong! She then threatens "she is done" and comes back repeatedly to tell you to stop harassing her! Seriously, this is how it actually looks to people reading this forum. She is a bit hi strung, and crazed. The other two (especially Rando) are just crazed and delusional thinking they are really outsmarting everyone and as mentioned above, "cracking the case"! Good thing they are not attorneys. Their behavior is their brainwashed instinct kicking in for all to see. They cannot help themselves. Take Care friend and carry on with your insightful knowledge.

Answer
When The Questions Were REALLY Answered
When The Questions Wer  
Rita, I honestly had to laugh at this writing of yours!  You have these people pegged so accurately, its amazing.  I can just hear them saying the very things you mentioned in this writing.  Like you said, "what kind of logic is that"?  Simple...it isn't logic at all.  Its lunacy.

Rando simply has a complex, due to all the different aliases he uses to write under.


RANDO:  "Rita writes the very next day after I mention her name, so that proves she is Derrick!"

Uhm, okay.


And this one from you, was dead on....


MS. T:  "Hello Mrs.T, i just want to tell you you made a mistake the other day, my name is Derrick, not Donald. Mrs. T- QUIT HARASSING ME!!!! You believe in hell fire, and the trinity! Get off our page and go where you belong! She then threatens "she is done" and comes back repeatedly to tell you to stop harassing her! Seriously, this is how it actually looks to people reading this forum."


If that isn't an accurate summary of what we see, then I don't know what is.


You..."She is a bit hi strung, and crazed."

You think so?


Once again, you have pointed out what they cannot see, but everyone else does.

No, as you pointed out, you really don't see anyone coming to them with valid questions, or wanting to "learn more" about the religion, because of the example they set, or the "wisdom" in their writings.  That is, except for the "questions" they send themselves, and to each other.  But not too much from the outside.  I think a lot of people just tune in for the show.


You said...."The funny thing is these particular Witnesses always want readers to think "they cracked the case"! Its really quite amusing. All they really do is make themselves look foolish."

"The other two (especially Rando) are just crazed and delusional thinking they are really outsmarting everyone and as mentioned above, "cracking the case"!

Yeah, and did you see the very latest case of this?  You may not follow the Baptist forum, and I didn't either, up until about 3 weeks ago.  But as I mentioned to you before, Rando signed up over there, under the name "Jay Barns".  He tries to lie his way out of it, but insane people never seem to know they're insane, and they can't grasp that they give themselves away, merely by the warped logic they use, and using the very same arguments under both profiles.  That is what Rando does.  Its humorous just to watch him write himself, and answer himself using the very same language, writing style, unique thinking pattern that nobody else has (thank God), etc.

Anyway, get what that clown did today.  I mentioned on here back on the 22nd of February, that I had never been an Expert in the Baptist forum before.  That was true.  I was, however, approved and accepted as a Baptist expert 3 days later...on the 25th of February.

Well Rando, in his profile over there on that forum, "Jay Barns", had a question come in from someone named Lou, about the end times.  This question came in to him on the 19th of February.  Instead of answering the question, Rando Barns keeps it in his email for 2 days, until the 21st, and then sends it to the Question Pool.  When I got accepted on that forum on the 25th, I immediately removed the 16 fraudulent questions that Rando had planted in the Question Pool, under my name.  I also saw Lou's question there, and I thought it was a good question that deserved an answer, so I pulled it out and answered it.  That was on the 25th.

But here's what's funny....Rando wrote himself (Jay Barns) a question today, and claimed "Holland lied" (what else is new, huh?).  Says that I answered the question on the 19th from the Question Pool, when I actually answered it on the 25th.  The "lie" was that I had claimed here on the 22nd, that I had never been an expert in the Baptist forum, but I was supposedly answering questions there on the 19th.  

He failed to mention that, when an Expert pulls a question out of the Pool, it posts under the date it was ASKED by the questioner, and not the date it was pulled out and answered. That is why Richard had to re-post his question the other day, that he had pulled from the Pool....Because it posted on page 4 of this forum, due to the amount of time it had sat in the Pool.  

Anyway, to make a long story short, I contacted the person who sent the question to "Barns", and asked them a simple question....When did they receive the notice that their question had been sent to the Pool?  They replied back to me today, and said that it was sent to the Pool at 4:59, on 2/21/15.  In other words, Barns had the question in his email, and had not even sent it to the Pool on the 19th.  He received it on the 19th, but it was in his email until the 21st.  And he publicly claims I answered it on the 19th.  I could not even access the Question Pool there, until becoming an expert there, on the 25th.

And just for good measure, I will attach a photo to this answer, that clearly shows the question to Lou was ASKED on the 19th, but was not answered by me, until the 25th.  It will also show all the OTHER fraudulent posts under my name, being answered on the 25th, as well.  Because that was the first day that I even COULD answer questions on that forum.

But this is the kind of worthless lying people, that call themselves "Christians", that are here representing the JW religion on a daily basis.  Unfortunately, the GOOD JWs here, do not receive many questions.  Like I said, a lot of people tune in for the show.  If there was someone really wanting to learn from a JW with some sense, they would ask one of the good ones, like Carol, or Abdijah.  

Rita, I am truly sorry that every time you write me, I share some lie of Rando's.  Its just that, there is ALWAYS a new lie from Rando, to talk about.  And when you mentioned about "cracking the case", I wanted to point out how he went over there and wrote that he had caught me in some "lie", about when I became an Expert over there.  It was not the 19th, and I never answered a question there on the 19th, because I couldn't.  The day I was accepted on that forum, was the 25th.  And my first act on that forum, was to remove the fake questions planted there in my name, and address Lou's question.  I also removed 2 more that had been falsely attributed to me.  But that was all on the 25th.

Yeah, Rando "cracked the case", alright.  If anything, I think Rando must have fallen at some point, and cracked his head.  He acts like somebody with some severe mental issues.  He is in bad need of prayer.

You made a good point about how few people actually want to become Witnesses, from reading this forum, and I agree with you that the answer is none.  I mean, would you, if all you read from JWs, was from Eddie, Rando, or Ms. T?  I would conclude that they were all crazy, if that was all I had to go on.  I would also conclude that they didn't know how to tell the truth, about even the smallest detail, of any subject.

Because that's what we see from them daily...One falsehood after another.


You said..."Many just don't accept what they teach, because it doesn't make sense, and they cant really support what they say with any logic or truth. Just because they are taught (not from God or the Bible) but from the WTS that this is true, doesn't make it so."

Very well put, Rita.  The average, thinking person, sees the illogic and flaws in the teachings, but also the mind control evident in their actions.  And like you pointed out, they cannot support it with logic, so they lash out in hate.  I have witnessed it time and time again.  Just watch ANY reply from Ms. T, to Kevin.  It will almost always consist of....

"You really aren't asking because you want to learn" .  

Translation...."You didn't just accept what I told you without question, and you pointed out the obvious logical fallacy of it."


"You believe in the Trinity and Hell fire, so there is no point in discussing any more with you"

Translation...."I don't really know what to say to what you just pointed out, so I will do what I have been taught....Attack doctrines that you didn't even ask me about".


"I will not respond to you any more, since you are not sincere"

Translation...."I'm taking my ball, and going home, because you have asked me questions I really can't answer.  Oh, and because you did that, I am going to slander you in public as a liar, and I will use anything I can get my hands on, to do that.  Because I serve a God of "truth".


Its the same pattern, repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

They honestly have no clue how they look to the public.


You asked...."They are so many red flags within this organization, how do they not see them?"

Good question.  Because at some point along they way, they handed over their individual thinking capacity, and lost the ability to "see".  To us, its so obvious.  To them, they are trained not to see the red flags.

You have to understand something, Rita....They are taught to view every doctrinal blunder or change, as "progress", or "new light".  For anyone else, they would see it as a sign of instability, or as the Bible calls it, "being tossed to and fro" (Eph. 4:14) .  But to them, its just wonderful.  Its seen as a sign of "refining", or "spiritual maturity".  

When an Organization can make blunder after blunder, but convince its adherents that the blunders are all part of how Jehovah is "cleaning them up", then they have the followers right where they want them.

Basically, constant change and flip-flopping, is seen as proof that Jehovah is leading them.  Most people, I think, would see it as proof that He is not.


You said...."The fact remains, it is not so much you they fear, but what you say and the manner in which you say it. It puts them to shame. It exposes the real truth about them. This is why they are so irate at you being here. As you know, Witnesses do not like to be challenged"

Again, very true.  And here's the thing....The Biblical pattern is NOT in agreement with them.  I read through the Book of Acts and the establishment of the early Church, and I notice something....The Gospel message was not always welcomed, or warmly received.  I see the early Christians taking the message right INTO the Jewish temples, and to the Jewish people.  In other words, they were WHERE THE RELIGIOUS HYPOCRITES DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE.  In fact, they imprisoned them, beat them, and threatened them, if they kept preaching.

But did they quit?  Did they say, "Well, since they don't really want us here, then maybe we should go to the Critics of Judaism category?" .  Uhm, no.  They said they would obey God rather than man.

And I happen to love these people.  This was my religious upbringing, and I harbor no hate for them.  I can honestly say that I know NO Jehovah's Witnesses personally, who act like these despicable examples that we see here.  Not that they don't have some of the same twisted thought processes, because they do.  But to resort to lies, slander, and inventing libelous statements for the purpose of trying to discredit someone?  Never experienced it like that, until I came here.


But they need the Gospel, same as everyone else.  And some Christians write here, to get answers as to how to talk to JWs.  That is why there needs to be a balance, and various views represented here.  Without the non-JWs in this forum, there would be a LOT of false information given out, and facts that the JWs like these 3, would never tell the questioner.


Well, it is getting somewhat late, and I have typed probably more than you wanted to read.  But I do thank you for sharing your, once again, very insightful observations.  They are always welcome, and appreciated.

Have a great evening, Rita.  May God richly bless you and yours.  

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Derrick Holland

Expertise

I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.

Experience

29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

Organizations
I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for certain...in a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

Education/Credentials
High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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