Jehovah`s Witness/John 2:17


Hi Derrick

I have had a lot of interest in the Bible, and a JW coworker had me read John chapter 17 (among others) as a study guide.

I have to admit, Jesus' prayer in John 17 seems to negate the Trinity - which I was raised to believe.

I don't know the Bible all that well, but that chapter seems to be pretty clear.

Since you have experience on both sides of the Trinity fence, I'd like your scriptural input.


Hello, Kevin.  Thank you for writing with your question.

At first, I thought that you might be my friend Kevin who writes me on a regular basis, since you mentioned having a JW co-worker, as he does.  But from the nature of your question, I see that you are obviously not the same Kevin.

I want to commend you on your interest in the Bible, because it is through its pages, that we learn what God expects of us, and His plan of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone.  So, I encourage you to continue reading it, and seeking its truth.

I'm afraid I need a little more information from you, before I can directly address your question, because I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, specifically.

You said...."a JW coworker had me read John chapter 17 (among others) as a study guide.

I have to admit, Jesus' prayer in John 17 seems to negate the Trinity - which I was raised to believe."

What I need for you to do if you will, is to tell me specifically what in John 17, you believe "negates" the Trinity.  If I tried to guess which part specifically you think argues against the Trinity, I might not get the part you are referring to.  The chapter is 26 verses long, so it would help me, if I knew what you were referring to, exactly.  I would like to help you, but I need you to show me what parts of the chapter you believe negate the Trinity, so that we can discuss those particular passages/points.

I see nothing at all in this chapter, that negates the Biblical teaching of the Trinity.  

Now, to be fair, this chapter DOES negate some very common MISCONCEPTIONS of what the Trinity is, and some of those misrepresentations, we see on this board on a regular basis.  This chapter DOES negate the idea that Jesus and the Father, are the same Person.  But contrary to what JWs often claim, the Trinity does not claim that Jesus is the Father.  It never has.  Any doctrine that claims that, is not the doctrine of the Trinity.

So yes, I can see where this chapter would negate some false ideas about what the Trinity is, but it does not negate the Trinity itself.  

So, if you ever hear a JW (or a member of any other religion, for that matter), ask...."If Jesus is God, then Who was Jesus praying to, Himself??" , then you know right away that you are talking with someone who doesn't have a clue what the Trinity is.  No Trinitarian believes that Jesus was praying to Himself.  If we believed that, we would not be Trinitarians.

So, please feel free to follow up, and give me some specifics, as to what parts of this chapter you believe "negate" the Trinity.  I'll try to help.

Also, I would like to make a recommendation to you, if I may.  You stated that your JW co-worker had you to read John chapter 17 as a study guide, which you believe, negates the Trinity.

I would like to request that you read Hebrews chapter 1 as a study guide, which I believe if you read it honestly, you will have to admit that it negates Jesus from being a created angel, as the JW religion teaches.

So again, please read that chapter in Hebrews and see if you agree with me, as well as please give me some specifics as to what parts of John 17, you see as problematic to the doctrine of the Trinity.

Thanks Kevin, and have a great evening.  Looking forward to hearing back from you.


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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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