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Jehovah`s Witness/If you can lie about the litlle things....


Good Afternoon Brother. I trust you are well.

I had an experience with my co-worker jw that relates to sister t's accusation about how we lied.  Recall when she said if you lie about the little things, you can lie about everything? Ironic and true. My jw co-worker probably wouldn't agree with her after he was caught in a simple, meaningless lie. What happened was that I texted him from my house to tell him where to meet me at the job site. I knew that he was already en route to then job. He texted back "ok." I asked him at lunch if he ever texted while driving? He replied, " No, I don't even like to text when I'm not driving." I then went on to ask him what time he left his house that morning and realizing he got caught in a simple lie said that indeed he did text me while driving. Ohhh the irony. So much for his statement that he doesn't sin on purpose!

I also backed him into a corner when I told him that a benefit I received for having a company truck was listed on my W2. I asked if he received the same notice on his W2 also. He said he didn't and I reminded him, "He should pay to Caesar...." He didn't really like that and I doubt he is going to voluntarily pay this tax on his own ( it's 700 dollars). I pretty sure he doesn't pay the sales tax online either when the store doesn't charge it. And I should believe him that parousia means invisible presence based on him reading the bible?

So if you need anymore proof that the jws are frauds, just judge them by their fruits.

With Easter approaching I asked my jw co-worker why they don't recognize the resurrection of Jesus? Logically speaking, without the resurrection there is no Christianity. You surely  know the lame excuse.

Thanks again Derrick.  Kevin.6k5q

Rando In Poland
Rando In Poland  

Rando in the USA
Rando in the USA  
Hey Bro, how's it going?  Good to hear back from you.

You know, you have hit on something here.  In fact, that was about the only point she made, that had any validity to it, when she said....

"If you both will lie about something that small and simple then you'll lie about EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING as we've been seeing on a constant basis.   Very amusing...but not surprising in the least!"

The only problem is, she doesn't seem to realize that when she makes statements such as this, although the underlying implication of the statement itself is true, it only incriminates HER side, and not ours.  For the simple reason, we have not lied about even small things, let alone big things.  But they lie about both small AND big things, all the time.

Oh, and by the way Kevin, I did go back in again to the thread from last October that was marked "Private", and made it Public.  You know, the one we were accused of "lying" about?  Anyway, the first follow up after the original DID post this time, but the last one still didn't.  But enough posted to show that nothing was being hidden at all, and her accusation was completely false.  It was enough to prove that what I already posted the other week, at your request, is the VERY SAME thing that was marked "Private", making her accusation of "lying", null and void.  

But don't expect that apology, however.  That would be too much of a Christian act on her part.

Because like she said, if they will lie about small things, then they would certainly lie about the big things.  Again, that was a very true statement.  For instance....

1.  Her being given links by me, showing that Barns actually lied about the date I became an expert on the Baptist forum, and then still claiming that I was lying, in spite of the proof right in front of her....

If she will lie about little things like that, just to keep siding with a fellow JW, then she would lie about the big things, too.

2.  Rando lying about such small things as accusing people such as me, of writing "vulgar" and "vile" questions to him, when he knows that is completely false.  The only person to write anything vulgar or vile here, is him.    

If he will lie about little things like that, he will lie about the big things, too.  Ms. T said so herself.

And truthfully, I could go on and on....Lying about using aliases, writing questions to themselves and pretending to converse with someone else, writing questions under other people's names and planting them in the Question Pool, etc.  ALL of these actions have been done by professing JWs, and Ms. T evidently condones these acts.

But its like she said...if they will lie about the little things, then they will certainly lie about the bigger things.

And it seems that Rando is now telling one lie after another, just to try and stay afloat here.  Check out this link from a very discerning questioner, who Rando falsely accuses of being me.  Of course, they are not me, but that is Rando's only defense when caught lying.  He NEVER just addresses the question asked, and the lie he has been caught telling.  Its always some childish attack or false accusation towards the questioner who caught him lying.  Check this out....

But just SOME of the "little" lies here lately that Rando has told, if we take Ms. T's statement to its conclusion, would tell us that Rando will lie about BIGGER things, as well.  

I mean, he lies about his location, while accusing me of lying about it.  

What he SAYS:  "You're in an "unsaved state" Pastor Holland.  Iceland and now Noord-Brabant, Netherlands?"  

What he DOES:  See attached photos, showing him changing his OWN location, after being exposed as being Jay Barns.  Incidentally, he lived in Poland, Australia, and the US....all within 2 days!  Lol!

And then, we find Rando lying about something so "little", as his childhood religion.  

Consider, that in 2012, he claimed to have been brought up in BAPTIST Sunday School as a child, which incidentally, is one of his "qualifications" listed in his "Jay Barns" profile.  I quote....

RANDO (from 2012):  "RANDO:  "I know as a child attending Sunday School, that the Baptist's beliefs are tied into the man-made doctrine of Modalism, rather than Trinitarism, for the most part."

But just in the past week, we learn that his religion, was actually CATHOLICISM....

RANDO (from 3 days ago):  "The Lords' prayer, the priests demanding to be called "Father" and the worshiping of idols was a "spiritual wakening" to me that Catholicism was not following the word of God but Church Tradition.  The paying monies to have prayers said for those suffering in Purgatory was something that screamed injustice to me.  I just couldn't serve a god of hatred and who believed in torturing people when I myself would never do such a thing."

So, I have to agree with her....If someone will lie about "little" things such as their location, their former religion, etc, then they would certainly lie about bigger things, as well....Such as fraudulently using other people's names to write harassing or slanderous questions, or spreading vile rumors about them....All things that God condemns.

But you know, Kevin, here's the thing....The ONLY people who have been caught in any actual lie, is them.  That's the point they just can't talk their way out of.

Your experience with your JW co-worker, was quite interesting.  Even though his lies might seem quite "little", the point needs to be emphasized again....If he will lie about the little things, such as whether he texted while driving, then he will probably lie about bigger things, as well.  And apparently he does, as you pointed out about his W2, and that benefit.

But yeah, you should believe him about "parousia", because he said so.  Uhm, no.  In fact, any real study of the Scripture, reveals that the word ALWAYS means a physical coming/presence, and never an "invisible" one.  The word is normally translated "coming", but even when it is rendered "presence", it is physical, literal, and tangible.  Never mysterious, or invisible.

In fact, it is rendered 22 times as "coming", and only 2 times, as "presence".  The verses where it is rendered "presence", are.....

2 Cor. 10:10-  For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible"

Notice it uses the word "presence", but clearly speaks of a BODILY "presence"?  Nothing invisible about it.

Philippians 2:12-  "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Again, see how Paul contrasts his "parousia" (a VISIBLE presence), with his "apousia" (his absence, which would make him NOT visible)?

But here is one of my favorite passages on this topic, because it uses the word "presence" ("emprosthen", in this case), AND the word "coming" ("parousia"), in the very same verse.....

1 Thess. 2:19-  "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

So yes, there WILL be a "presence" of Jesus Christ....But we will be IN His "presence", at His COMING.  Well, that really shoots down the idea of an invisible "presence", doesn't it?

You know, when I get an invitation that says...."We request the honor of your presence" (I don't get many of those, for some reason...:D), I normally understand that they are asking me to be there visibly and physically, and not in some sort of invisible and intangible manner.  

I'm not really sure why they think that the word "presence", somehow implies something invisible, except that it all goes back to the false 1874 prediction, where Jesus was originally supposed to COME in the flesh, but when He failed to do so, it was afterward decided that He had indeed become "present" in an invisible manner, instead.

Again, I hate to tell it to your co-worker, but he sure didn't get that "parousia" is an invisible presence, by reading the Bible.  

Thanks for writing and sharing your experiences, Kevin.  Like I pointed out before, I think this guy you work with, makes it up as he goes.

Well, have a great evening, and God bless.  


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Derrick Holland


I was raised in the religion known as Jehovah`s Witnesses for 13 years. Since becoming a born-again Christian, I have researched extensively this religion, especially their doctrines and their history. I can answer questions about their doctrines from the perspective of Biblical Christianity. To be clear: Jehovahs Witnesses is the religion of my upbringing, though I myself was never baptized into the religion, nor have I ever been considered as a Jehovahs Witness.


29 years of Biblical research into the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, and how they differ from the teachings of the Watchtower.

I would advise each questioner to this forum, to carefully READ the profiles of the various volunteers. There are several such as myself, who are not practicing JWs, but will provide you with an accurate and honest answer, regarding JW teaching. If we don't know the answer, we will try to research and get it for you. There are also some excellent practicing JWs here, who also endeavor to give you a factual and honest answer, based on their point of view. I believe by getting both points of view, the questioner can weigh the evidence for themselves, and make an informed decision. Unfortunately, there are also 3 here who claim to be JWs, but do NOT give honest, or well-researched answers. They will tell you only what they want you to believe, and they often hide facts about the history of their religion, as well as print untruths about other people's beliefs. This is done in an attempt to deceive the unsuspecting reader. It can be easily seen who these 3 are, simply by reading the public posts and "answers" which they write. Their posts will normally be filled with personal attacks, and if you question them about some teaching or aspect of the Watchtower that makes them uncomfortable, they will often reject your question, question your motives for asking it, tell you that you have been reading "apostate" sites, or turn the conversation into an attack on another expert. These ones are better avoided, as there is nothing to be gained by way of positive discussion, as they are not interested in intelligent conversation, or honest dialogue. If after reading the forum, you still have any questions as to who they are, just ask me, and I will be happy to tell you. And I can also provide documentation of their willful dishonesty. One thing is for a forum where people from both sides claim to be "Christians", there should never be any willful lying. Such ones only create a distraction in the forum, and provide nothing of any real value.

High School, some college. Studies of God's Word, the Bible, and how it compares to JW theology. I have found my own personal study and experiences to be far more valuable than any formal education or training. The Bible message is clear...Salvation is ONLY through and by the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and no religious organization has a thing to do with it. While attendance at a Bible-preaching, Bible-believing church is a must for spiritual growth and fellowship, no church can grant salvation to its members. Nor is joining a particular group a prerequisite for being saved.

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