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Jehovah`s Witness/Was Jesus created? A Jehovah Witness Critic said no!


Hi Bro Rando Derrick used these ELEVEN scriptures with his interpretations to say Jesus was NOT created as angel, much less a creation. What does Jehovah's Word the bible REALLY teach  on this matter? Below is DH qoute from a a person who asked this below

"There are three main scriptures Jehovah’s Witnesses use when trying to show that Jesus was created, Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:15 and Proverbs 8:22. What is your exegesis of these verses in relation to them not showing Jesus was created?

"I do not believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is created.

Let's look at all 3 of them....

Revelation 3:14-  "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

At first glace, I can see how someone might arrive at the conclusion that this verse is stating that Jesus is the first thing created by God.  But when we look at the meaning of the word "beginning" here, we begin to see a different picture.  

A good rule to remember, is that a correct interpretation of a verse of Scripture, will not be contradictory to another verse of Scripture...because the Bible doesn't contradict itself.  If there is an apparent contradiction, there are a couple of possible reasons:

1.  A faulty understanding on the part of the reader
2.  Failing to take into account the context....when something was written, and to whom it was written

Since the Bible clearly shows Jesus to be eternal in several passages, we can safely conclude from that fact alone, that Rev. 3:14 is not teaching that Jesus was created.  Some passages which show Jesus' eternal nature, are....

Micah 5:2-  "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Isaiah 9:6-  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Hebrews 7:3-  "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

Rev. 1:17-  "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Colossians 1:16-17-  "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

John 1:1-2-  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God."

As we can see from the above verses, most notably the last one from the Gospel of John, Jesus was in the beginning with God, and Himself possesses the nature of God.  It does not say He was the first thing God says He was there with God, in the beginning.

In short, there is no Scripture that states that Jesus was created.  There are the 3 passages that you listed, which are often used to support this view, by those who hold to it.

In Rev. 3:14, something important needs to be noted.  The phrase "the beginning", is from the word "arche", which is also where we get our word "architect".  Jesus can rightly be said to be the "Architect" of God's creation.  Another usage of this word "arche", is "origin".  Jesus can be said to be the Origin of God's creation, which would make Him the CREATOR, and not a creation.  

According to Strong's Concordance, this word can carry a variety of meanings.  Such as:

the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader

(This would be the usage that the JWs would adhere to)

"that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause"

(This is the view that Trinitarian Christians such as myself, adhere to)

Both are possible uses of the phrase "arche", but as stated above, the correct rendering would be determined in large part, by the teaching of the Bible as a whole.  And the clear Biblical teaching, is that Jesus is the Creator, and not a creation.  Therefore, this verse should not be used to contradict the clear Bible teaching, when it can so easily be harmonized with it.

On to the next Scripture....

Colossians 1:15-  "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Unfortunately, this is one passage where the JW's NEW WORLD TRANSLATION , has overstepped its authority.  In its zeal to make Jesus a created Being, they have added the word "other" exactly 4 times in verses 16-17, with no warrant whatsoever.  In older editions of the NWT, the word "other" was placed in brackets (indicating it was an addition, not found in the manuscripts), but in the newest edition, the brackets have been removed, giving the false impression that the word "other" belongs there.  It does not.  It is an addition by the translators, in order to give the passage a doctrinal slant.

This passage, reading all the way to verse 18, is very clear that Jesus is the Creator, not a creation.  In fact, the entire passage CONTRASTS Him with creation...not make Him a part of it.  It shows His superiority over creation.  

That is one of the reasons I quoted verses 16-17, in my discussion on the passage in Revelation.  Those verses eliminate any and all possibility, of Jesus merely being a creation.  If all you had was this passage of Scripture, and had never read any Watchtower explanation, and no Trinitarian explanation, would you come away thinking that Jesus was the Creator of everything, or Himself a creation?  The passage speaks for itself.

Now, the confusion comes in, with the phrase in v. 15, "firstborn of every creature ".  

It is important to remember that the word "Firstborn", does not always carry the same meaning in every passage.  In other words, it does not always mean "first one born", as would seem at first glance.  It actually sometimes refers to a position of pre-eminence...see verse 18.

Sometimes the word "firstborn" does mean "first one born"....such as, "Firstborn of Pharaoh"  In this example, the "firstborn of Pharaoh", is Pharaoh's first son.  If you use the phrase "firstborn" in this same exact parallel manner, it would be saying that Jesus was the "first son" or "offspring" of creation.  But this is the exact opposite of what the entire passage is saying.  Creation didn't "parent" Christ.  Christ parented creation, according to the verses that follow verse 15.  To understand "firstborn of every creature" to mean that Christ was the "first child of", or a product of creation, simply contradicts the rest of the passage, and is clearly not the intended usage.

Another usage of "firstborn", is "Ruler" or "Heir".  It is a designation of pre-eminence.  This is clearly the meaning in this context.

But once again, the first clue that the JW understanding of this passage is incorrect, should be in the fact that they had to add the word "other" 4 separate times in 2 verses, in order to make those verses teach that Jesus was a creation, in order to harmonize the rest of the passage with their viewpoint.  If they had not added "other" those 4 times, then verses 16-17 show Jesus being the Creator of ALL things, which would contradict their understanding of verse 15.

Proverbs 8:22-  "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old."

This is a passage of Scripture that should never be used to prove Jesus was created, because this passage is not even speaking of Jesus.  I realize the JWs (and even some Christian theologians) have a tendency to try and make this verse about Jesus Christ, but it simply isn't.  And there is no good reason to try and make it such.

First of all, we are clearly told in the chapter itself, what it is about....Wisdom.  In fact, one should not just read Proverbs chapter 8 alone, but the first 9 chapters of the Book, because the entire discourse is Wisdom something that is non-human (wisdom), a description and qualities, as if it were human.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that the "wisdom" in chapter 8, is a different "wisdom" than the "wisdom" spoken of in the other chapters.  In fact, if one reads the first 9 chapters of Proverbs, the entire discourse has a consistent flow.  Its all talking about the same quality...Wisdom.  Wisdom is given personal qualities.  

Wisdom is also spoken of with FEMALE pronouns (hardly applicable to a male Messiah).  

If we are to take the "wisdom" spoken of in Proverbs chapter 8 to be a description of Jesus Christ, then we would have a huge problem, because this "wisdom" is also described as female, and dwells with someone named "prudence".  

Proverbs 8:1-3-  "Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors."

Proverbs 8:12-  "I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions."

I think it should be plain to see, that this is simply a passage, 9 chapters to be exact, of giving human attributes to the quality of wisdom.  There is simply no reason at all, to connect this passage with Jesus Christ being a created Being.

And even if someone wants to insist that it is referring to Jesus, in the absence of any such evidence, it still would not teach that Jesus is created.  

The NWT rendering of the word "qanah", as "produced", is unfortunate.  The KJB rendering is better, as it says "possessed".  

I make this point, because after showing that the entire passage is speaking specifically of "WISDOM", some JWs might try to say that "Jesus is the wisdom of God".  

But that is also problematic, because that would imply that there was a time when Jehovah was WITHOUT wisdom.  Obviously, that is not the case.  Wisdom is not something created by God...It is an eternal attribute of God.  It is something He has always possessed...not something He later on created.  

For those reason, I would say that Proverbs 8:22 should not, and cannot be used to support the idea that Jesus is a created Being."

End of DH's qoute

Thank you Bro Rando

Matt. 24:14 As a witness to all the nations.

Thank you for your question.  The strongest scripture that shows that Jesus was created would be (John 1:1).  We know that God has no beginning because he always existed.  But the Word existed when?  According to scripture it says, "In the beginning was the Word".

Strong's Concordance
arché: beginning, origin
Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arché
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies

746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent") .

"Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." - See more at:

Jesus as the Word of God would be chief, foremost, what comes first, preeminent which means ahead of the rest, the beginning .  The Greek word arche' is a feminine noun describing Jesus.  "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" (Rev 3:14)  The feminine noun is directly linking Jesus as to the beginning of the creation of God.

"When there were no depths, I was brought forth ; when there were no fountains abounding with water - See more at:  Sounds preeminent to me, isn't that the meaning of Beginning?

Who is the "ROOT" of David?  Is it not the MESSIAH?
"I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." (Rev 22:16 NIV)
"I AM the root and the offspring of David and the bright and morning star." (Rev 22:16 Jubilee)

Strong's Concordance
rhiza: a root
Original Word: ῥίζα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: rhiza
Phonetic Spelling: (hrid'-zah)
Short Definition: a root, that which comes from the root
Definition: a root, shoot, source; that which comes from the root, a descendent.

Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.

Strong's Concordance
basileia: kingdom , sovereignty, royal power
Original Word: βασιλεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: basileia
Phonetic Spelling: (bas-il-i'-ah)
Short Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, kingdom
Definition: kingship, sovereignty, authority, rule, especially of God, both in the world, and in the hearts of men; hence: kingdom, in the concrete sense.

Whose the cornerstone that the builders rejected?

Just like Jesus, God's Kingdom is a CREATION.  Jesus is the root of David, the promised Messiah. Here was a direct correlation of the feminine noun ROOT pointing to the male MESSIAH. And this Male Messiah was given all authority!  (Matthew 28:18)  The ROOT of David was Given ALL Authority and Power to Act.

Strong's Concordance
exousia: power to act, authority
Original Word: ἐξουσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: exousia
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-oo-see'-ah)
Short Definition: power, authority, weight
Definition: (a) power, authority, weight, especially: moral authority, influence, (b) in a quasi-personal sense, derived from later Judaism, of a spiritual power, and hence of an earthly power.

The deity of Christ speaks about his QUALITY in the feminine sense.  Proverbs 8:12-  "I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions."  Actually it reads I [am] Wisdom and dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

Strong's Concordance
ormah: craftiness, prudence
Original Word: עָרְמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ormah
Phonetic Spelling: (or-maw')
Short Definition: prudence

"We have never heard anyone speak like this!" the guards responded. (John7:46 NLT)

   the quality of being prudent; cautiousness.
   "we need to exercise prudence in such important matters"
   synonyms:   wisdom , judgment , good judgment, common sense , sense, sagacity, shrewdness, advisability

Gee, attributes that the Angel of Great Counsel would have, in order to be named Wonderful Counselor.

"This undeserved kindness he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding  by making known to us the sacred secret of his will . It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed  for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth." (Ephesians 1:8-10)

Take Care,
Brother Rando

Jehovah`s Witness

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Brother Rando is a student of Prophecy and one of Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing with the Faithful and Discreet slave. His interests are directed towards how the time of the end would come about. The earth’s population today is going through a physical, spiritual and emotional tribulation that has been prophesied concerning a time of distress as it enters into a cleansing period of removing wickedness by means of God’s Kingdom. (Daniel 12:1) Brother Rando’s discussions are of keen interest to many who await for God's Kingdom. He asserts that his discussions are just that, and not Prophecies, nor does he make the claim to be inspired. His authority is the Bible. He proclaims the year 2034 to be of very high interest to all. Like a GPS, that gives Insight to location, 2034 allows us to gauge where we are in the stream of time according to God’s Will. According to Brother Rando, the Bible carries two thoughts in it’s passages, one is fleshy and the other is spiritual. Jesus Christ warned Peter of thinking fleshy and that this type of thinking is not from God. (Matthew 16:23) In order to measure time, a method of measurement is needed. Measuring time by “the day” would mean a 24 hour period. However, measuring “the day” spiritually would mean a period of time yet to be revealed using other scripture to interpret the method needed. By looking into the Bible, we can actually determine what God meant by “the day” when looking into his Word on how his Will would come about. As we read (Genesis 2:16-17) the punishment for disobedience was death “in the day”. As time went on, the scriptures do begin to reveal the time frame of “the day”. According to Genesis 5:5, Adam lived 930 years and then he died. Satan who thinks like a man, got it wrong! (Genesis 3:4-5) Why Study the Bible


In Brother Rando’s research of the Bible, he found scripture does interpret other scripture. The answer to how long a day was, according to God’s Will was found in Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8. This is vital to gaining understanding in how we are to measure time in God’s view. Spiritually and not fleshy or physical. A day in heavens time is a thousand years to us. It’s by this method we can measure time and where we are in the stream of time of the end. In answer Jesus said to them: “Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (John 2:19) Was Jesus indicating that he was the Temple of God, God’s Kingdom? And that the temple would in fact be destroyed or broken down? According to God’s Word, the following scripture is the basis for Salvation. “For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9) In order for John 2:19 and Romans 10:9 to come in line, did Jesus utter a prophecy about God's Kingdom since he stated, “I will raise it up”? IF the basis for salvation is that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him up. We can conclude that Jesus did not raise himself up, but it was God that raised him from the dead since he was dead and conscious of nothing at all. (Ecc 9:5) Jesus prophesied that HE would raise God's Kingdom. (Rev 5:10) Jesus was speaking prophetically of raising the temple within the third day of a thousand years. Jesus warned Peter not to think the thoughts of man. (Matthew 16:23) Based on 2 Peter 3:8 we are able to determine the time frame to when God’s Kingdom would be raised up by Jesus Christ. Jesus was put to death on Nisan 14, 33CE. The two days would actually represent two thousand years and we come up with the year 2033. Jesus stated,“in three days I will raise it up.” So the third day is upon us in 2034.

“I fully support, acknowledge and cooperate with *The Faithful Steward and Its' Governing Body* of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” I am property of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" that Jesus, my brother, is appointing over his belongings. This Slave is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Earthly Organization known Worldwide as "Jehovah's Witnesses". When the Mountain-like organizations act against God's chosen people after Babylon has been destroyed, Jehovah will slaughter those who are touching the pupils of his eyes. Even though Babylon the Great is spoken as a woman and she has fallen in (Rev. 14:8), the sacred secret is that she is not a woman at all, but the World of False Religion that will be utterly destroyed by the personal hand of Jesus Christ as (King Abaddon) in the coming Great Tribulation never to be found again! (Matthew 24:14)

Secular Historians point to the Temple in Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. But was Jesus Christ speaking in a physical sense since that Temple is non-existent today? Jehovah Witnesses assert that Jesus under inspiration of Holy Spirit was actually prophesying about his spiritual body as the only means to approach his Heavenly Father. (John 14:6) Not the Temple made by hands or his fleshy body as Christendom claims, but his spiritual body, known as the Body of Christ. (1 Cor 12:27) This would actually be the Collective Representative of God’s Kingdom in how we can approach the One True God JEHOVAH. Brother Rando is not the first to come up with this time frame. In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the “time of trouble” on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly. Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such neglect the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.” International Bible Students Association: "Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands."

According to the discussion, 1914 represents the year that the earth would enter into a time of distress and that time limit could very well be 120 years. Which again, brings up the year 2034. The year 1914 is derived by a prophecy of the end of the Gentile times. Brother Rando insists that we should not live by a date, but to use this time to get right with God. Jesus continually pointed that the people who were on the earth when he would raise God’s Temple would be like those people in Noah’s time, taking no note. Where do the 120 years come from? If we read Genesis 6:3, most people think of this scripture in the fleshy sense of man’s lifespan. But could there be a spiritual meaning, giving those with Insight a divine warning? The Bible does say, “make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end.” (Daniel 12:4) Could it be, this world has entered into it’s Last Days in 1914? (1 Timothy 3:1-5) Yet there is another scripture that helps us measure the time. In Ecclesiastes 6:6 it reads, “Even supposing that he has lived a thousand years twice over and yet he has not seen what is good, is it not to just one place that everyone is going?” The chapter talks about vanity and that if a person actually lived two thousand years without God’s Kingdom we are all heading to the same place. Since death was the punishment, we would need God’s Kingdom to conquer death, the place we all are heading. A thousand years twice over is two thousand years. Simple math again brings us to the time of 2034, when the second thousand years has been brought to it’s finish. Could Christ Millennial reign be from 2034 to 3034? We don’t know. Jesus stated, he would raise God’s Temple in the third day, so we can expect God's Kingdom to be fully operating sometime between the years 2034 and 3034. However, Jesus Christ was risen first thing on the very morning in the third day. Most Bible readers are in agreement that Christ does rule for a thousand years.

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Armageddon is the actual cleansing of the earth from all wickedness. If in the literal sense, it would consist of angels coming down from heaven to bring death to all those rejecting the Kingdom of God. But if it is spiritual, Armageddon could very will take place without the knowledge that it is actually occurring. If this is the case, then Armageddon would commence without the knowledge that the wicked are simply dying off. There seems to be evidence in scripture to how God destroyed the forefather’s in the wilderness. They died off in the wilderness at the hand of the destroyer without knowing of such, as Paul eloquently explains in 1 Corinthians 10:1-10. If.....

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