Jehovah`s Witness/Question about doctrines
I'm studying the Bible with JW's and I take my studies very seriously as I want to be 100% sure that what I believe is the complete undeniable, verifiable truth.
I have read some past publications of the JW's and I'm disturbed by the following points. I spoke to an elder about these matters and I noticed he became very defensive and told me I'm developing a critical attitude. These concerns came from reading the JW publications directly.
01. C.T. Russell (1st president) said in a WT that reading the Bible alone is dangerous without the WT publications. How is that possible? Why would God inspire a book that is impossible to read and understand without the WT publications?
02. The WT stated in the finished mystery that the time of the end started in 1799. It also stated that 1874 marked the invisible return of Christ and that he began to rule invisibly in 1878. Also stated as fact was that the end would come in 1914. All these dates have changed many many times. If God directs the JW's, how is it possible that they constantly change their doctrines? Where and how did they come up with these doctrines? Men or God?
03. End of the world predictions: The Watchtower Society had predicted the end of the world for 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925, 1941, 1975 and most recently in 2000 in the 1/1/89 Watchtower (later changed in the bound volume). Where did they get these ideas.....from GOD or men?
04. The Watchtower Society built a mansion in San Diego, California called Beth Sarim (house of princes). The book Salvation page.311 and brochure Millions now living will never die p.89 & 90 stated that the prophets of old will live there once resurrected. The only one who enjoyed that mansion along with two 16 cylinder Cadillacs was J.F.Rutherford second President of JW's. Where on earth did Jehovah's Witnesses get these conclusions and at the same time tell the world if anyone doesn't believe them they will be destroyed at Armageddon?
05. Why is the verse at Deuteronomy 18:20-22 ignored by Jehovah's Witnesses? There it clearly states what a false prophet is. Yet that verse is not mentioned in the Reasoning book at all!! Why????
06. Why aren't JW's allowed to ask their leaders any question that troubles them? JW's are obligated to accept any doctrine, policy and interpretation that comes from the Governing Body even if it contradicts scripture!! The unity and love that JW's show is superficial and conditional. The moment someone disagrees with the Governing Body they are disfellowshipped and called evil names such as mentally diseased and apostate.
07. Child Molestation.... JWs are quick to point the finger at the Catholic Church about their handling of Child molesters. However,the policies of the JWs are the same! They do not report to authorities unless required by law. They do not inform the Congregation if there's a molester in their midst. Elders are told to call the WT legal Dept instead of calling the police first. Recent lawsuits against the WT for protecting molesters include Candace Conti, Gonzalo Campos, Osvaldo Pardon and many others. In Australia the Royal Commission convened and brought to light over 1000 cases of Child rapes that were not reported to authorities by the JWs in a span of 50 yrs.
Please help me with these questions!
The reason that the elder probably became defensive isn't because we aren't allowed to ask questions, it's the questions that you are asking. The things that you state are mainly the things that apostates lie on us about or take out of context and twist all around. If you are taking your studies very seriously, as you claim, then tell me, what in the Bible do you not agree with? As our teachings are from the Bible. The scriptures prove that:
1. God's name is Jehovah forever, and he alone is Almighty God. (Ps. 83:18; Ex 3:15)
2. Jesus is God's only Begotten son, who came and died for us so that we may live. (John 3:16)
3. There is no Trinity, it's a false teaching, there aren't 3 Almighty God's. (Deut 6:4; John 14:28; 1 Cor 11:3; 1 Cor 15:27,28; John 17:3, Matt 4:10; Luke 11:2)
4. There is no hellfire where a loving God would send people to be tortured forever.(Ecc 3:19,20; Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7)
5. The soul is not immortal, we do not have souls, we are souls, and souls die.(Gen. 2:7; Ecc 9:5; Ez 18:4,20)
6. The Kingdom of God is mankind's only hope for salvation and it's a real government ruled by Jesus Christ. (Dan 2:44; Luke 4:43)
Are you saying that is wrong?
Most religions today teach the opposite of what the Bible teaches, they say that Jesus is Almighty God and part of a trinity, which in turn nullifies the role that Jesus has in being the King of God's kingdom and dying on our behalf. They teach that God is a sadistic torturer who lies and goes back on his promises by burning people in hellfire for sins they committed before they died. They teach that souls are immortal and never die, so what would be the point in a resurrection if no one ever really died. They do not preach the good news of the kingdom as Jesus did and told his followers to do. (Matt 28:19,20; Acts 20:20)
So if you take your studies very seriously then that's what you need to be concerned with, how you can make sure you are on God's side and learning Bible truths. If we are false prophets then prove from the Bible that what I listed above is incorrect, without contradicting ANY other Bible scriptures, words of men mean nothing. If you cannot do that, and I know you can't, then I suggest you leave apostate thinking and literature and websites and ex JW's lies and twists alone. (1 John 2:18,19). I don't believe for one second you are being honest. But at any rate, that's on you. This isn't a game, you think that imperfect people cannot make mistakes? Do you really think that back then when Russell and Rutherford were studying the Bible that they had it all correct all at once seeing how they were coming out from the lies of Christendom along with a Trinitarian tainted Bible?
You do realize that many of Jehovah's prophets of old got things wrong and made mistakes. JW's have never ever stated they were inspired of God. But they are the only ones interested in doing what God says we should do. And when it comes about that we have made a mistake, in their humility, they make corrections to line up with the Bible. Jehovah has never given all details to his prophets at one time, if you do Bible reading and research you will find that out. He gave details and revealed things as they needed to be revealed, when it was time for it. (Proverbs 4:18; Daniel 12:4) Just like with Daniel, he didn't understand, but he was told it was meant for the time of the end. (Daniel 12:8,9) Jesus also told his apostles there were many things he wanted to tell them but they could not bear them now (John 16:12). So that alone lets you know that everything isn't going to be made known at once, God's wisdom shows him to be loving and merciful, it's a reason why he doesn't do that, just like you wouldn't tell your very small child who asks where did I come from, every single detail, but only what the child could grasp at that time. Thus Almighty God reveals things when the time is right for them to be.
I don't know the details of those quotes since for one, I wasn't alive back then and haven't read it, and two, it's irrelevant when you see who is really teaching the truth today! And the only ones who are doing that is Jehovah's Witnesses, and not only are we the ONLY ones teaching the truth about God's Kingdom, we also have Jehovah God's backing in all our activities in regards to His will! You and who ever else can deny that, but it will just be another lie, because we have eye witness proof by millions of these facts!
I'll reply to each of your questions/statements even though I believe you are either lying about studying and/or you just want to get your evil intentions out on a public forum.
1) You take things out of context, basically reading the Bible alone isn't going to help you understand it. Not to mention the scripture at Prov 18:1, that speaks about isolating oneself is a bad idea. That's why an angel sent Philip to go explain the Bible to the Ethiopian eunuch, who by the way had just returned from worshipping at the temple in Jerusalem, and why people came together to have the scriptures explained to them. If you deny that then you are calling God a liar. He put those examples in the Bible for a reason, so that people can use common sense and know that it takes more then just reading alone the pages of the book! If that was the case why go to school with text books and listen to the teacher explain the book if all one needed to do was read it alone for themselves. Trying to word it to make us look bad doesn't win you any points.
If you attend meetings do you deny that the Bible is used through out the entire meeting looking up multiple scriptures to show that anything we say comes from the Bible? How many times do you pick up your Bible in church and are given proof of what is being taught? Not many...I tell you that. If you were in Brooklyn, NY a few years ago, would you not have seen a huge sign on the side of the Bethel Branch building that said, READ THE BIBLE DAILY? You can't tell me that wasn't there, You can't tell me that JW's are not encouraged to read the Bible daily! You can't tell me that every single week we aren't discussing Bible chapters that we've read for our weekly meeting and reflect on as a congregation! Here's a few scriptures that help you to see just reading the Bible alone wasn't enough. You do realize also that Jehovah gives understanding. (Prov 2:1-6) If you deny the Bible then that's between you and the God you serve!
Acts 8:27-31 "With that he got up and went, and look! an E·thi·oʹpi·an eunuch, a man who had authority under Can·daʹce, queen of the E·thi·oʹpi·ans, and who was in charge of all her treasure. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and he was returning and was sitting in his chariot, reading aloud the prophet Isaiah.So the spirit said to Philip: “Go over and approach this chariot.” 30 Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” 31 He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?” So he urged Philip to get on and sit down with him."
Acts 18:26 "He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Pris·cilʹla and Aqʹui·la heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him."
Neh 8:7,8 "....who were Levites, were explaining the Law to the people, while the people remained standing. 8 And they continued reading aloud from the book, from the Law of the true God, clearly explaining it and putting meaning into it; so they helped the people to understand what was being read."
Luke 10:21 "In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved"
Why were these scriptures penned if what you say is true? JW's teach the truth and Jehovah God is giving his people understanding because they truly want to serve him with a complete heart. The helps us to see that Jehovah is providing understanding to ones on this earth per the Bible, it says so, does that mean it will be all at once, again as I explained no. So what makes you think it's not being revealed to the GB? You can't prove that it's not, just because you want to talk about a few prophecies, Jehovah will reveal whatever needs to be revealed regarding his prophecies at his due time, lots of which have been. But again, Bible truths about who God is, what his purpose for this earth is and who Jesus is and what God's kingdom is and the things I listed was made clear and it is in truth. (John 4:23,24) we all have a brain and common sense and can read the Bible for ourselves to see if what they are saying lines up with the Bible or not. Are you serious with that?
Let's see what a few other religions teach:
Some of what Catholics believe:
Who is Jesus Christ?
Jesus Christ is God the Son, who became man for us.
Is Jesus Christ truly God?
Jesus Christ is truly God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son, the Eternal Word, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit always was, is, and always will be.
‘In the beginning was the Word’ (John 1:1)
Some of what Baptists believe, as all Baptists do not have the same beliefs:
II. The True God.
We believe the Scriptures teach that there is one, and only one, living and true God, an infinite, intelligent Spirit, whose name is Jehovah, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of heaven and earth; inexpressibly glorious in holiness, and worthy of all possible honor confidence and love; that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; equal in every divine perfection, and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.
Another Baptist site beliefs:
There is one and only one living and true God. …The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.
God the Father
Another Baptist site:
For American Baptists the local church is the fundamental unit of mission in denominational life. Baptist roots date back four centuries to a people seeking the opportunity to worship God as individual members of freely organized and freely functioning local churches. Baptists always have maintained the need for autonomous congregations, responsible for articulating their own doctrine, style of worship and mission.
Some of what Latter Day Saints/Mormons believe:
When we accept Jesus Christ’s help we can feel peace in this life and return to Heavenly Father after we die.
God is our Heavenly Father, and like any parent He wants us, His children, to be happy. In the scriptures, He teaches "my work and my glory [is] to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). Eternal life means to live in heaven, in His presence, with our families, forever"
Some of what Lutherans believe:
There is only one true God - the Triune God - who exists in three separate but equal persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
No where in the Bible is there a scripture that says, "God the Son" nor did Jesus ever say he was God the Son or God himself or part of a trinity, that's not in the Bible. Yet most of the Religions teach that lie, or they teach we have an immortal soul and when we die our soul goes to heaven.
Yet, that's not what the Bible says. We can't have some truths and some not truths mixed in there. We have to go by what the Bible says regarding these issues! (John 4:23, 24)
2) I already explained about how mistakes are made by imperfect men, prophecies are from God, not JWs, and when it is time for the correct understanding of any given prophecy, Jehovah will reveal it! So if it hadn't yet been revealed then that lets you know that if they tried to understand a Bible prophecy that they didn't have completely correct at that time, they kept on researching, praying, and studying, and wait on Jehovah. Again, Bible writers were inspired of God, JW's have never ever said they were inspired of God. But I can tell you one thing, the Basic Bible teachings have not changed, you can only speak about Bible prophecies and not having a correct understanding. What about the things that can't be denied that only JW's truthfully teach from the Bible? You don't take that into consideration do you?
3) End of the world predictions? ummmm, don't you mean end of this wicked system of things per their understanding at that time? read what I said in number two.
4) I haven't read that so can't comment on it. But again, back then there was much refining that had to be done...you seem to forget that God reveals things when it's time for it. You and no one else can tell God when it's time to reveal what he meant in his prophecies...Daniel didn't understand a prophecy he penned.(Daniel 12:8,9) why? Because it wasn't time for it. What about when Jesus' apostles thought the kingdom of God would appear instantly? (Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6,7.) or when they were saying that a certain disciple would not die, guess what they got it wrong (John 21:22, 23).
In fact these examples in the Bible are very similar to what you claim is our changing our doctrines, or that make us supposedly false, when in fact, it's not our doctrines that are changing, it's our understanding regarding Bible prophecies that are being better understood, refined or adjusted. Seems like you are trying to word things to make it seem bad, the question about that is why would a person taking their study very seriously do such a thing.
5) Before I reply to this, go to page 132-133 of the Reasoning book under False Prophets it lists Deut. 18:18-20, so because it didn't put vs. 21, 22, you are going to make that false claim? See deception and trying to twist things is not a good thing. That verse is talking about a prophet who goes and speaks in the name of other gods and tells the people to follow other gods as if Jehovah said to do this, performing signs and portents. Compare Deut. 13:1-5. It's speaking of presumptuousness, this word is related to arrogance, haughtiness, and defiance, That's what it's talking about. When have you ever seen a JW perform signs and portents and tell anyone to go follow any other god except for Jehovah God? Or speak in defiance of Jehovah? We give Jehovah exclusive devotion, never will you see us tell people to pray to Jesus, Mary, the saints, venerate idols and objects and encourage others to do so. You are in fact being presumptuous with your false statement that Deut. 18:20-22 is ignored by JW's. Again, making a mistake regarding prophecies does not make one presumptuous or defiant. Go do some research on the word. Understanding is being withheld from you. (Daniel 12:10; Matthew 13:15; Isaiah 6:9,10)
6) That is a straight out lie! I will tell you that first hand. Jehovah is backing the GB and our organization, if there have been mistakes with prophecies for the millionth time, then Jehovah will correct it in his due time just as he did before with Jesus' apostles and continues to do today, who are you to tell Jehovah when to reveal something about his prophecies? But as I stated and will state again, the basic Bible truths have always been there. One Jehovah, not 3=1, no trinity, no hellfire, no immortal soul but a resurrection, you can't be resurrected if you never died to begin with.
Our love and unity is not superficial and you should be ashamed of yourself to even bring your fingers to type such a lie, read our Year books and our website and see the love we have for one another to the point of death. When our brothers were in concentration camps because they refused to kill another human and had to walk a very long way, all 230 survived that trek because of the love they had for one another and helped each other and even ones who were not JWs. (Gal 6:10) Just because you may not hear about what we do and have done to help people, doesn't mean we haven't and don't. Our Yearbooks and website testifies to that. You say conditional? Well does Jehovah have conditions? You better believe he does. If you refuse to obey him what will be your outcome? (Deut. 11:13-17) Need I say more.
7) Again a straight out lie...please stop it. I don't care what names you put out there, if any one did not report something it was not because that's our policy it was their wrong decisions, or misunderstandings at that time, if you look at our website you will see that the police are to be called etc. Just because you say that's how things are doesn't mean you are telling the truth and quite frankly you are not telling the truth. Do the research on our website about how we are admonished to protect our children and report any false brothers/sisters to the authorities. If they are doing such things they are not truly a JW. There is no way we'd protect such a vile person.
Don't come back with any more of that lying apostate twisted propaganda to me. You cannot prove we are false and you cannot prove any other religion is teaching the truth from the Bible. We are the only ones that even teach the Good news of God's Kingdom and what it will do for mankind. All the churches do is look to men as rulers instead of looking to God and his appointed son, Jesus Christ. They don't even know who God is!