AboutBrenton Hepburn Expertise I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I can answer questions on the reliability of the NWT, the so called mind control problems, so called prophecies, and general practices and history of Jehovah’s Witnesses.....
>>>>WARNING<<<<<< ....Please be aware that there are at least ... 3 .... people here who ARE NOT practicing JWs and, (at other times there have been as many as 5.) These ones will, at times, appear to have an agenda against JWs., and will often give answers that are not correct in regard to JW teachings and practices. If you are after a answer from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please read some of the answers that the various experts have published before choosing someone. If you want to ask them a question that is fine, but if you want a balancing view after asking one of the NON JWs, ask a JW the same question
Experience I have been a publisher since 1964. When I first went on the internet I found a lot of negative information dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses covering prophecy, mind control and what many said was a very bad translation of the Bible known as the NWT. It shook my faith. After may hours researching these topics I could see why some felt that way, but, I was also able to explain why there were these misleading views. I can now set matters straight for anyone that has negative information about Jehovah’s Witness to show them that such information is at best misleading and at worst dangerous lies.
Education/Credentials I have been a student of the Bible for many years, am trying to teach myself Biblical Greek.
Was a public tax accountant for many yrars untill SEP 2009 when I gave it up.
Question Do you still stand by the authority of the NWT and do you own and use a KIT (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)?
If so, how do you interpret the difference in the actual text in John 17v3 and the NWT text - also doesnt the actual text get massive support from Jesus Himself in John 5v39-40 ?
What is your PERSONAL interpretation of John 5v39-40? I would be interested to know.
Many thanks and the Lord bless your studies,
Chris.
Answer Hello Chris,
Thank you for your question.
Yes I do stand by the authority of the NWT and I do own and use the KIT as weel as about 30 other Bibles, several in Greek, as well as the Latin Volgate.
I understand why you question the NWT rendering of John 17:3. Many people feel as you do that the NWT has been altered to suit our theology. Personally I see the NWT, not as being altered, but as showing a more correct rendering of many verses. John 17:3 being one of them.
The NWT renders John 17: 3 as "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."
The word for word English under the Greek text in the KIT says “may be knowing� instead of “taking in knowledge�. The NWT rendering infers that one has to keep on studying and taking in knowledge on an ongoing basis.
Other translations that appear to be more popular in the English language do not use the phrase "taking in knowledge". Instead they say "that they may (or should) know thee" RSV, KJV, ASV. "by knowing you" The Living Bible. "to know you" The Revised Berkeley Version. "that they may know you" NIV.
On reading these translation, the reader gets the impression that salvation comes from just knowing God and his Son, that is, all they have to do is have a knowledge of God. Whereas the NWT we are told that it is an ongoing process, continuing gaining knowledge. This indicates more is involved than just knowing about God but a continual commitment in getting to know God. The 1902 Rotherham version says “That they get to know thee,�
The particular word in question, “know“ or “knowledgeâ€?. In the Biblical greek there are 15 different Greek words that are rendered as know or knowledge. 8 of these are verbd, 4 are adjectives, and 3 are nouns. The word in question at John 17: 3 centers around the Greek word ď€ GINOSKO. This Greek verb denotes the act of knowing through experience. Getting to know our Creator and his Son is always ongoing, just as it takes a lifetime to get to really know a close friend or relative. And the only way that we can really get to know our God is by regular and consistent study of his word.
Of this word Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says
Quote
ginosko, [Verb, 1097]
Signifies "TO BE TAKING IN KNOWLEDGE, TO COME TO KNOW, RECOGNIZE, UNDERSTAND," or "to understand completely," e.g., Mark 13:28,29; John 13:12; 15:18; 21:17; 2 Cor. 8:9; Heb. 10:34; 1 John 2:5; 4:2,6 (twice),7,13; 5:2,20; in its past tenses it frequently means "to know in the sense of realizing," the aorist or point tense usually indicating definiteness, Matt. 13:11; Mark 7:24; John 7:26; in John 10:38 "that ye may know (aorist tense) and understand, (present tense);" John 19:4; Acts 1:7; 17:19; Rom. 1:21; 1 Cor. 2:11 (2nd part),14; 2 Cor. 2:4; Eph. 3:19; 6:22; Phil. 2:19; 3:10; 1 Thess. 3:5; 2 Tim. 2:19; Jas. 2:20; 1 John 2:13 (twice),14; 3:6; 4:8; 2 John 1:1; Rev. 2:24; 3:3,9. In the Passive Voice, it often signifies "to become known," e.g., Matt. 10:26; Phil. 4:5. In the sense of complete and absolute understanding on God's part, it is used e.g., in Luke 16:15; John 10:15 (of the Son as well as the Father); 1 Cor. 3:20. In Luke 12:46, AV, it is rendered "he is ... aware."
In the NT ginosko frequently indicates a relation between the person "knowing" and the object known; in this respect, what is "known" is of value or importance to the one who knows, and hence the establishment of the relationship, e.g., especially of God's "knowledge," 1 Cor. 8:3, "if any man love God, the same is known of Him;" Gal. 4:9, "to be known of God;" here the "knowing" suggests approval and bears the meaning "to be approved;" so in 2 Tim. 2:19; cp. John 10:14,27; Gen. 18:19; Nah. 1:7; the relationship implied may involve remedial chastisement, Amos 3:2. The same idea of appreciation as well as "knowledge" underlies several statements concerning the "knowledge" of God and His truth on the part of believers, e.g., John 8:32; 14:20,31; 17:3; Gal. 4:9 (1st part); 1 John 2:3,13,14; 4:6,8,16; 5:20; such "knowledge" is obtained, not by mere intellectual activity, but by operation of the Holy Spirit consequent upon acceptance of Christ. NOR IS SUCH "KNOWLEDGE" MARKED BY FINALITY; SEE E.G., 2 PET. 3:18; HOS. 6:3, RV. (UPPER CASE MINE)
End Quote
A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament by G. Abbott-Smith says "to be taking in knowledge, come to know, recognise, perceive, understand…. Of the knowledge of divine things, of God and Christ… Jo 17:3
So the verb (remember verbs are doing words, they show action) "GINOSKO … signifies to be taking in knowledge, to come to know, understand, or to understand completely"
You make this statement
Quote
also doesn’t the actual text get massive support from Jesus Himself in John 5v39-40 ???
End quote
That text reads (from the RSV) “39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.�
Please correct me if I am wrong, but from that, I am assuming you have the opinion, that Jesus is saying, that there is no need to keep looking into the scriptures to continually get knowledge of him or of God.
The context of that chapter is of a discussion Jesus is having with some Jewish religious leaders. As religious leaders they should have been aware that the messiah was due at that time. They have the prophets that for told his arrival then. John the Baptist was also a witness as to who Jesus was. However Jesus says that they do not believe, regardless of all the evidence.
By that comment Jesus was not discouraging his Jewish listeners from studying the Scriptures. Rather, he was showing up their insincerity or their inconsistency. They realized that the Scriptures could guide them to everlasting life, but the very Scriptures that they were searching also should have led them to the Messiah, Jesus. Nonetheless, they refused to accept him. Studying was thus of no profit because they were not sincere, teachable. Searching the Scriptures, therefore, did them no good. Why? Verse 42 of John 5 tells us why “42 But I know that you have not the love of God within you.� These religious leaders had no love for God or his word.
Just for good measure lets read verse 39 –47 of John 5
“38 and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent. 39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from men. 42 But I know that you have not the love of God within you. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; it is Moses who accuses you, on whom you set your hope. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"
These religious leaders did not have a love for sacred things nor the proper frame of mind when they did search the scriptures and they did not seek Gods glory. They were men pleasers, looking for glory form other men not from God.
Did you notice the last text mentioned in the quote from Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words? it is 2 Peter 3:18. That reads “18 But GROW IN the grace AND KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.� (capitals mine) Christians were exhorted to grow in knowledge. Therefore today we should continue to grow in knowledge (2 Peter 3:18) and keep “taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)
Personally I think the NWT gives a closer rendering of the original thought of the original writer. We have to do more that just know God and Jesus we have to continue to get to know them. If some one was to ask me if I knew the prime minister of my country (Australia), I would say yes its Mr. John Howard. However, just knowing his name where he lives, who his wife is what his job is how old he is the fact that he walks every morning, etc does not mean I know him on an intimate level, I am not his friend. More is required to be his friend. Even if I was in his circle of “friends� it still takes a lot of time to really get to know him personally. So with God and Jesus the more we read the Bible with the right frame of mind the more we get to know them, their likes and dislikes etc.
I hope I have been able to answer you. Please feel free to ask for clarification of to ask another question.
