About Michael O`Flaherty (Expert=8663) Expertise Did you know that the Bible does talk about the concept of the trinity? Did you know that Jesus did claim to be God, and that unless He washes you, you will not get into heaven? If you want a spirited debate about your beliefs in relation to the Bible, please ask. I will warn you; you might be challenged. Friendly debate only!
Expert: Michael O`Flaherty (Expert=8663) - 8/28/2006
Question The same things were asked to Janko and Brenda Harper and he danced around them and refused to answer. Their end response was the WT & JW’s are infallible and cannot be questioned, even though the bible does tell us to question all that come before us (1 John 4:1).
The first point about the cross that they danced around was the work of Justus Lipius. The NWT bible originally referenced back to Lipius’ work on the depiction of the wood cut they claim proves Jesus was crucified on an upright stake. Upon looking at Lipius’ work there are also 15 other wood cut diagrams, most of which are crosses. Under one of the crosses there is a statement “this is the type of CROSS that our Lord was crucified on”. Why does the WT use the work of a man and cover up the tracks leading back to his work because they choose to use something that is contradicting to what they would have everyone to believe? The work of Justus Lipius does tell us that Jesus was crucified on a cross, but the WT has taken his work and used it in a false way to make it seem as if they were correct.
The second question that they would not dare touch is that science and medicine both have given us an answer to this question. There have been several medical tests on healthy students (not just beaten half to death) that tell us a person crucified in the manner the WT depicts would die in a matter of minutes. The bible itself tells us that Jesus hung on the cross for many hours before his eventual death. So medically it’s impossible that Jesus was crucified on an upright stake and lived for hours on end.
Now comes the ever important question…is the WT wrong, or is the bible wrong?
The reason I have become interested in the subject of JW’s so much is because I recently found out that a co-worker of mine is a JW. He is a young man that has been raised in this belief system. We have started talking about various things and even started doing what I like to call “bible study” at all our breaks. He admits that he knows something is strange, but continues to believe the WT is right. One thing he can’t understand is why I (just some random guy that is not a preacher of bible scholar) can so easily stump these so called “experts”, and why they can’t produce any kind of proof whatsoever on what they believe and why they believe it…
Maybe you will be able to shed some light on this subject to add to our conversations.
God Bless.
Answer Hi Shaun!
Well, it is not the first time the Watchtower has taken someone’s work and mangled it. They have done that to many Greek translators even though they do not have one Greek scholar in their midst. That is why they are so dangerous. They believe that a select few individuals disseminate biblical truths to the masses. You see this in other cults and communist power structures. A few individuals who feed propaganda to the masses; people who oppose them are punished (excommunicated); and there is always this notion that they are for the “people” and somehow more in connection with God. All other religions are a lie and are trying to mislead people--that is how they draw their power. They even go as far as to change the very Word of God to fit their viewpoint. Dangerous stuff!
So the cross debate is nothing more than another way to “pick” a fight with non-JWs, make it look like they have some secret or more-evolved information, and of course, attempt to discredit widely-held views about the Bible in order to pick off weaker people who may not be grounded in God's Word.
Frankly, I try to avoid debates about the word “cross” since in the Bible, the word is vague enough that a stake or tree can be implied. Romans also crucified people on stakes. However, there are three historic proofs in my view that make the cross more likely. First, during this time in history, the Romans were using the cross. Second, the phrase “draw all men” suggests that Jesus’ arms are outstretched, not above his head:
JN 12: 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
Thirdly, Simon of Cyrene was forced to carry the cross.
MT 27:32 As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33 They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull).
In historic terms, this fits. The victim would carry the crossbar as part of their punishment. The crossbar was fastened to another piece at the sight and dropped into a hole.
So again, you can make a debate that Jesus died on the stake, but I just don’t see it fitting the facts. Regardless, the bigger picture is that Jesus was crucified, and according to John 2, raised his own body from the dead. I much prefer to focus on Jesus and the resurrection when debating the Bible with them since that is more important. Whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake makes no different to our salvation, but it makes all the world to theirs since they do not believe Jesus is who he claims to be (John 8:23-24.)
