AboutBrenda Martin Expertise I have been one of Jehovah`s Witneses now for over 30 years, in those years I have brought up 4 children, teaching each of them the bible.Being one of Jehovah`s Witnesses has helped me cope with my Epilepsy and bring up a daughter with learning difficulties.I have conducted bible studies with people from nearly every denomination i.e. Muslim. Having used the bible all these years to answer peoples questions, I feel I am qualified to give any answer regarding Jehovah`s Witnesses and the bible.
Experience My experience has been one of attending bible lectures 5 times a week,taking part in these lectures in front of an audience and being with thousands of J.W. at conventions where I have seen the bible at work in peoples lives.It is truly a miracle when you see thousands of people meeting together and not one policeman needed, and not even a piece of litter in sight.It is like another world.
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Followup To Question - The first question should have read Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" if Jesus is Michael and he is Lord of Lords why did he say "The Lord rebuke you!" why not just say I rebuke you.
Dear Brenda thank you for responding. My follow up question is if Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT)why does Michael say Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" If Jesus is Lord of Lords why say "The Lord rebuke you!" instead of I rebuke you?. Also If the Father is always superior to Jesus, then that would mean that the Father would have some specific domain of superiority over Jesus in terms of forgiveness. Which sins can the Father forgive which the Son cannot forgive? . If the Father is always superior to Jesus then that would mean that the Father, being superior, would receive honor which the Son, being inferior, would not receive. Can you identify which acts of honor are rendered to the Father which are not rendered likewise to the Son? If the Father is always superior to Jesus, why does 1 Corinthians 15:28 say that “when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One”?
Jo 1:1-3 all things came into existence through him. If Jesus is a created being then he is a "thing". But this verse says all "things" came into existence through Jesus. This excludes Jesus from the realm of "things" and puts him in the class of being uncreated, eternal, not part of the created world.
Heb 1:6 Jesus is above all angels. The text does not say "all other angels." It says all angels and shows that Jesus is not included in that group. Thus he cannot be Michael the Archangel. Thank You in advance for your response.
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Followup To
Question -
Tell me the Scriptures" that say Jesus is Michael
the archangel. The New World Translation (NWT) mentions Michael five times as: 1) "one of the foremost princes" (Dan. 10:13); 2) "the prince of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 10:21); 3) "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel's] people" (Dan. 12:1); 4) "the archangel" who "had a difference with the devil and was disputing about Moses' body" but "did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms" (Jude 9); and 5) a participant in heavenly conflict when "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon" (Rev. 12:7). Which one of these verses says that Michael is Jesus Christ. Rather than being merely "one of the foremost princes," Jesus Christ is "Lord of lords and King of kings" (Rev. 17:14, NWT) and is "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come" (Ephesians 1:21, NWT). 1 Thessalonians 4:16, NWT). says that "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet..." the expression "with an archangel's voice" simply means that the archangel, like God's trumpet, will herald the coming of the Lord, not that the Lord is an archangel. none of these verses even comes close to stating that Jesus Christ is Michael the archangel. In fact, Scripture clearly teaches the opposite: namely, that the Son of God is superior to the angels. The entire first chapter of Hebrews is devoted to this theme
Answer -
HI Jerome, you asked--"JESUS IS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGE?."
Jesus Christ can be identified as Michael by comparing Jude 9 with 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (Revised Standard), where Jesus Christ's command for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel's call”; moreover, the name Michael means “Who Is Like God?,” evidently indicating that Jesus is the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah's sovereignty and destroying God's enemies.
According to The Imperial Bible-Dictionary, Michael is the “name of a superhuman being, in regard to whom there have in general been two rival opinions, either that he is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, or that he is one of the so-called seven archangels.”
What does the Bible say? Are there several archangels? Aside from Michael, no archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor do the Scriptures use the term “archangel” in the plural. The Bible describes Michael as the archangel, implying that he alone bears that designation. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.
Aside from the Creator himself, only one faithful person is spoken of as having angels under subjection—namely, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31) The apostle Paul made specific mention of “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) And Peter described the resurrected Jesus by saying: “He is at God's right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.”—1 Peter 3:22.
While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus, there is one scripture that links Jesus with the office of archangel. In his letter to the Thessalonians, the apostle Paul prophesied: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) In this scripture Jesus is described as having assumed his power as God's Messianic King. Yet, he speaks with “an archangel's voice.” Note, too, that he has the power to raise the dead.
"JESUS CHRIST IS "LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS" (REV. 17:14"
Yes; Jesus is God's appointed Ruler, the King of kings, Jehovah is the supreme King, possessing unlimited power and authority. The kings of Judah were subordinate kings who represented His sovereignty on earth. Like them, Jesus Christ is a subordinate King, but with far greater power than those earthly kings, because Jehovah has put him in the position of ruling the universe. (Php 2:9-11) Jesus Christ has therefore been made “King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Jesus is called many things in the bible, so him being called “King of Kings” does not mean he cannot also be called “the foremost of princes” Here are some of his names—
Only begotten son
The word
Chief agent of life
Wonderful counsellor
Master teacher
Shiloh
High priest
Jesus spoke of anointed ones as his ‘brothers.' (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers' of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12
The fact he was called a “brother” of mere humans, does not make him any less a “king”, so likewise calling him a “foremost prince” does not make him any less a “King either. One name doesn't cancel out the other.
"FAR ABOVE EVERY GOVERNMENT AND AUTHORITY AND POWER AND LORDSHIP AND EVERY NAME NAMED, NOT ONLY IN THIS SYSTEM OF THINGS, BUT ALSO IN THAT TO COME" (EPHESIANS 1:21,
Yes, but let's not forget who gave Jesus that position—
“far above every government and authority and power and lordship” (Eph 1:20, 21), to whom “every knee should bend” in recognition of his GOD-GIVEN authority (Php 2:9-11). Because God has made his Son the key figure in the outworking of all his purposes (Ro 16:25-27), life depends upon obedience to “the good news about our Lord Jesus,” and this obedience includes making public declaration of one's faith in him.—2Th 1:8; Ro 10:8-10, 16; 1Pe 4:17.
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16, " AN ARCHANGEL'S VOICE" SIMPLY MEANS THAT THE ARCHANGEL, LIKE GOD'S TRUMPET, WILL HERALD THE COMING OF THE LORD, NOT THAT THE LORD IS AN ARCHANGEL.
Who says? What did you read to come to that conclusion, because scripture teaches otherwise. The prefix “arch,” meaning “chief” or “principal,” implies that there is only one archangel, the chief angel; in the Scriptures, “archangel” is never found in the plural.
First Thessalonians 4:16, in speaking of the preeminence of the archangel and the authority of his office, does so in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” It is, therefore, not without significance that the only name directly associated with the word “archangel” is Michael.—Jude 9;
In this scripture Jesus is described as having assumed his power as God's Messianic King. Yet, he speaks with “an archangel's voice.” Note, too, that he has the power to raise the dead.
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel's call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus' commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ.
SCRIPTURE CLEARLY TEACHES THAT THE SON OF GOD IS SUPERIOR TO THE ANGELS.
No-one is saying different, of course the Son of God is superior to the angels;
Above all these spirit creatures, he has placed one in charge, his own beloved Son, “the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15) As the archangel—chief over all the angels, seraphs, and cherubs—Jesus is the mightiest of all of Jehovah's creations.
Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovah's chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix “arch,” meaning “chief” or “principal,” implies that there is only one archangel. God's Word speaks of him in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.
All the best
Brenda
Answer -
WHY DOES MICHAEL SAY "THE LORD REBUKE YOU!" WHY NOT “ I REBUKE YOU?.”
Perhaps in your bible it says; “LORD” but in the original manuscripts it says- ‘May JEHOVAH rebuke you.'” That's what comes of translators taking out God's name and replacing it with “Lord or God” it causes confusion of identity.
‘Not daring to bring a judgment against Satan in abusive terms,' Michael warned Satan: “May Jehovah rebuke you.”—Jude 9.
In not running ahead of Jehovah by daring to bring judgment against the Devil, Jesus honoured his heavenly Father.
WHICH SINS CAN THE FATHER FORGIVE WHICH THE SON CANNOT FORGIVE?
Your question reminds me of the account of the paralytic who was brought to Jesus; “And when [Jesus] saw their faith he said: ‘Man, your sins are forgiven you; “Thereupon the scribes and the Pharisees started to reason, saying: ‘Who is this that is speaking blasphemies? Who can forgive sins except God alone?' But Jesus, discerning their reasonings, said in answer to them: ‘What are you reasoning out in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, “Your sins are forgiven you,” or to say, “Get up and walk”? But in order for you to know that the SON OF MAN HAS AUTHORITY on the earth to forgive sins—' he said to the paralyzed man: ‘I say to you, Get up and pick up your little bed and be on your way home.'”—Luke 5:20-24
Jesus has been GIVEN authority to forgive sins, making the one bestowing that authority on him; JEHOVAH; “superior”
Recognizing that “superiority” Jesus; just days before his death, added: “When you stand praying, forgive whatever you have against anyone; in order that YOUR FATHER who is in the heavens may also forgive you your trespasses.”—Mark 11:25.
WHICH ACTS OF HONOR ARE RENDERED TO THE FATHER WHICH ARE NOT RENDERED LIKEWISE TO THE SON?
“He that does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.”—JOHN 5:23 ---why wouldn't Jesus receive honour, but you miss the point, Jesus was SENT by the “Father” making the sender JEHOVAH; “superior”
Today many in Christendom claim to honour Jesus Christ, yet they do just the opposite. How? Well, many claim that Jesus is Almighty God, and that God, the Creator of all things, came to earth and lived and died as a man. This claim is embodied in the Trinity doctrine, which is the fundamental teaching of Christendom. But if the Trinity is false, if Jesus is, in fact, lesser than and subordinate to God, would not this misrepresentation of his relationship with God make Jesus unhappy? Indeed, he would consider such a misrepresentation a dishonour to himself and everything he taught.
"1 CORINTHIANS 15:28 SAY THAT “WHEN ALL THINGS ARE SUBJECTED TO HIM, THEN THE SON HIMSELF ALSO WILL BE SUBJECTED TO THE ONE”?
Yes? this scripture “among many others” proves Jesus is not God; Consider all that Jehovah has delegated to his beloved Son, Jesus. The Son has been given “authority to do judging.” (John 5:27) The angels have been “made subject to him.” (1 Peter 3:22) Jehovah's powerful holy spirit has been put at Jesus' disposal to help him to lead his disciples on earth. (John 15:26; 16:7) Jesus could therefore say: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18) Yet, when it comes to our prayers, Jehovah has chosen to involve himself personally. That is why the Bible directs us to address our prayers only to Jehovah, doing so in the name of Jesus.—Psalm 69:13; John 14:6, 13.
The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus' Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. (1Co 15:27; Heb 1:1-14; 2:8)
JO 1:1-3 --ALL "THINGS" CAME INTO EXISTENCE THROUGH JESUS.
To arrive at the correct understanding of God's word we must take all scripture into account, so this scripture tells us quite rightly that Jesus was given the task of creating, from his Father Jehovah, it does NOT say this makes Jesus; “uncreated” and niether does the rest of scripture.
Jesus, in his prehuman existence, was “the first-born of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15, NJB) He was “the beginning of God's creation.” (Revelation 3:14, RS, Catholic edition). “Beginning” [Greek, ar•khe´] cannot rightly be interpreted to mean that Jesus was the ‘beginner' of God's creation. In his Bible writings, John uses various forms of the Greek word ar•khe´ more than 20 times, and these always have the common meaning of “beginning.” Yes, Jesus was created by God as the beginning of God's invisible creations.
THIS PUTS JESUS IN THE CLASS OF BEING UNCREATED, ETERNAL, NOT PART OF THE CREATED WORLD.
Nonsense, the scriptures give no basis whatsoever for that belief. Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3)
Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son, this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus' own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.
HEB 1:6 THE TEXT DOES NOT SAY "ALL OTHER ANGELS." IT SAYS ALL ANGELS AND SHOWS THAT JESUS IS NOT INCLUDED IN THAT
You are reading into the scripture what's not there; Hebrews 1:6 shows that even the angels render obeisance to the resurrected Jesus Christ; full stop.
The bible clearly identifies Jesus as Michael the archangel and the Son of God, you are free to believe whatever you choose, but be assured it is not scriptural.
All the best
Brenda
Answer "IF JESUS IS MICHAEL AND HE IS LORD OF LORDS, WHY DID HE SAY "THE LORD REBUKE YOU!" WHY NOT JUST SAY I REBUKE YOU".
I answered that in my previous post—Jesus said; “JEHOVAH rebuke you” Jesus was NOT speaking of himself when he gave his answer, that's why he didn't say “I rebuke you” whatsmore, Jesus would never have said that anyway,out of subjection to his Father.
If your bible reads “May the LORD rebuke you” the LORD mentioned here is JEHOVAH not Jesus.
