About Janko Expertise I am a qualified minister of Jehovah`s Witnesses and fully capable of answering any or all questions on our faith as well as others too, and the correct understanding of the Bible,which is God`s Word.
Experience My experience with our faith is quite substantial and was introduced to it in the 1960's as a child.
Question Okay let me see, lets compare your interpretation with the word of God “Biblical Truth.”
In reference to the tree in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream.
You said: The tree symbolizes the universal sovereignty far grander than that of Babylon’s king.
You would also quote Daniel’s interpretation “biblical truth” of that same tree referring to Nebuchadnezzar:
verse :22 it is you, o king, because you have grown great and become strong, and your grandeur has grown great and reached to the heavens, and your rulership to the extremity of the earth.
In reference to the chopping of the tree, leaving it to its rootstock.
You said: The tree was cut down when God’s Kingdom of Judah with its capital in Jerusalem fell in 607 B.C.E. After “seven times” of beastly rule by the nations passed, the two constraining bands of metal were released, and divine rulership was restored when Jesus Christ began to rule as King in God’s heavenly government in 1914.
We are going to break your interpretation into 2 parts with Daniel’s biblical truth.
1st part “the cutting of the tree and leaving the rootstock, marking the beginning of the Seven Times”
You would quote the biblical truth: verse 30-32 ………..The king was answering and saying: “Is not this Babylon the Great, that I MYSELF have built for the royal house with the strength of my might and for the dignity of my majesty?” While the word was yet in the king’s mouth, there was a voice that fell from heavens: “To you it is being said, O Nebuchadnezzar the king, “The Kingdom itself has gone away from you……………..and seven times themselves will pass over you UNTIL you know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind……
2nd part “The end of the seven times, reestablishing Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom with greatness extraordinary added to him.”
You would quote the biblical truth: verse 34-37 “ And at the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted up to the heavens my eyes, and my own understanding began to return to me; and I blessed the Most High himself………..my kingdom my majesty and my brightness themselves began to return to me……..I was reestablished upon my own kingdom, and greatness extraordinary was added to me……..because those who are walking in pride he is able to humiliate.”
Daniel did say in his interpretation of that same dream in reference to the chopping of the tree: verse 23-26 …….Chop the tree down and ruin it…….let it’s portion be UNTIL seven times themselves pass over it”……..which must befall my lord the king……………UNTIL you know that the Most High is ruler in the kingdom of mankind…..because they said to leave the rootstock of the tree, your kingdom will be sure to you AFTER you know that the heavens are ruling.
Now what do I see here: I see the truth covered with a forced belief. You are forcing the scriptures to your belief. The seven times was fulfilled beginning and ending with Nebuchadnezzar’s kingdom. Not beginning with the fall of Jerusalem in 607BCE and ending with Christ Kingdom in 1914.
Seven times = 1 time = 360 days
1 day= 1yr X 360days= 360yrs
360yrs X 7times= 2520yrs
2520yrs + 607BCE= 1914
What a mix of biblical truth with corrupted interpretation.
Another question: you don't believe in a spirit form. But you do believe that 144,000 anointed is with Christ spiritually, can you please explain?
R/Luis
Answer I guess you never heard of a greater fulfillment of a prophecy at a later time,which was the case In Daniels's
prophecy about the "seven times". If you have a copy of our book called "Daniel's Prophecy" please read it.
To answer the other question about the 144,000 is yes there are also called "The Israel of God" which is spiritual Israel not fleshly.Here is our explanation on this by what the Scriptures say:
How Many Are Sealed?
10 Jesus said to those in line for this sealing: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32) Other scriptures, such as Revelation 6:11 and Romans 11:25, indicate that the number of this little flock is indeed limited and, in fact, predetermined. John’s next words confirm this: “And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed; out of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.”—Revelation 7:4-8.
11 Could this not be a reference to literal, fleshly Israel? No, for Revelation 7:4-8 diverges from the usual tribal listing. (Numbers 1:17, 47) Obviously, the listing here is not for the purpose of identifying fleshly Jews by their tribes but to show a similar organizational structure for spiritual Israel. This is balanced. There are to be exactly 144,000 members of this new nation—12,000 from each of 12 tribes. No tribe in this Israel of God is exclusively royal or priestly. The whole nation is to rule as kings, and the whole nation is to serve as priests.—Galatians 6:16; Revelation 20:4, 6.
12 Although the natural Jews and Jewish proselytes were given the first opportunity to be chosen for spiritual Israel, only a minority of that nation responded. Jehovah therefore extended the invitation to the Gentiles. (John 1:10-13; Acts 2:4, 7-11; Romans 11:7) As in the case of the Ephesians, who previously had been “alienated from the state of Israel,” now non-Jews could be sealed with God’s spirit and become part of the congregation of anointed Christians. (Ephesians 2:11-13; 3:5, 6; Acts 15:14) It is appropriate, then, for the 24 elders to sing before the Lamb: “With your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”—Revelation 5:9, 10.
13 The Christian congregation is “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.” (1 Peter 2:9) Replacing natural Israel as God’s nation, it becomes a new Israel that is “really ‘Israel.’” (Romans 9:6-8; Matthew 21:43) For this reason, it was quite proper for Jesus’ half brother James to address his pastoral letter “to the twelve tribes that are scattered about,” that is, to the worldwide congregation of anointed Christians that in time would number 144,000.—James 1:1.
The Israel of God Today
14 Interestingly, the first president of the Watch Tower Society, Charles T. Russell, recognized the 144,000 to be a literal number of individuals making up a spiritual Israel. In The New Creation, Volume VI of his Studies in the Scriptures, published in 1904, he wrote: “We have every reason to believe that the definite, fixed number of the elect [chosen anointed ones] is that several times stated in Revelation (7:4; 14:1); namely, 144,000 ‘redeemed from amongst men.’” In Light, Book One, published in 1930 by the Watch Tower Society’s second president, J. F. Rutherford, it was likewise stated: “The 144,000 members of the body of Christ are thus in the assembly shown as selected and anointed, or sealed.” Jehovah’s Witnesses have consistently held to the view that literally 144,000 anointed Christians make up spiritual Israel.
15 Nevertheless, does not natural Israel today merit some special favor? In the period just prior to the Lord’s day, when sincere Bible students were rediscovering many of the basic truths of God’s Word, it was thought that with the ending of the Gentile Times the Jews would again enjoy a privileged standing before God. Thus, C. T. Russell’s book The Time Is at Hand (Volume II of Studies in the Scriptures), published in 1889, applied Jeremiah 31:29-34 to the natural Jews, and commented: “The world is witness to the fact that Israel’s punishment under the dominion of the Gentiles has been continuous since B.C. [607], that it still continues, and that there is no reason to expect their national re-organization sooner than A.D. 1914, the limit of their ‘seven times’—2520 years.” It seemed that the Jews would then experience a national restoration, and this prospect apparently brightened in 1917, when the Balfour Declaration pledged British support for making Palestine a national home for the Jews.
16 Following the first world war, Palestine became a mandated territory under Great Britain, and the way opened for many Jews to return to that land. In 1948 the political State of Israel was brought forth. Did this not indicate that the Jews were in line for divine blessings? For many years, Jehovah’s Witnesses believed that this was so. Thus, in 1925 they published a 128-page book, Comfort for the Jews. In 1929 they released an attractive 360-page volume, Life, designed to appeal to the Jews and dealing also with the Bible book of Job. Great efforts were made, especially in New York City, to reach the Jews with this Messianic message. Happily, a few individuals responded, but the Jews by and large, like their forefathers of the first century, rejected the evidence of Messiah’s presence.
17 It was obvious that Jewry, as a people and as a nation, was not the Israel described in Revelation 7:4-8 or other Bible prophecies related to the Lord’s day. Following tradition, the Jews continued to avoid using the divine name. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) In discussing Jeremiah 31:31-34, the book Jehovah, published by the Watch Tower Society in 1934, stated conclusively: “The new covenant has nothing to do with the natural descendants of Israel and with mankind in general, but . . . is limited to spiritual Israel.” The Bible’s restoration prophecies relate neither to the natural Jews nor to political Israel, which is a member of the United Nations and a part of the world that Jesus spoke of at John 14:19, 30 and 18:36.
18 In 1931 God’s slaves on earth had received, with great joy, the name Jehovah’s Witnesses. They could subscribe wholeheartedly to the words of Psalm 97:11: “Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, and rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart.” They could clearly discern that spiritual Israel alone had been brought into the new covenant. (Hebrews 9:15; 12:22, 24) Unresponsive natural Israel had no part therein, nor did mankind in general. This understanding cleared the way for a brilliant flash of divine light, outstanding in the annals of theocratic history. This would reveal how abundantly Jehovah extends his mercy, loving-kindness, and truth to all humans who draw close to him. (Exodus 34:6; James 4:8) Yes, others besides the Israel of God would benefit by the angels’ holding back the four winds of destruction. Who might these be? Could you be one of them? Let us now see.
