AboutBrenda Martin Expertise I have been one of Jehovah`s Witneses now for over 30 years, in those years I have brought up 4 children, teaching each of them the bible.Being one of Jehovah`s Witnesses has helped me cope with my Epilepsy and bring up a daughter with learning difficulties.I have conducted bible studies with people from nearly every denomination i.e. Muslim. Having used the bible all these years to answer peoples questions, I feel I am qualified to give any answer regarding Jehovah`s Witnesses and the bible.
Experience My experience has been one of attending bible lectures 5 times a week,taking part in these lectures in front of an audience and being with thousands of J.W. at conventions where I have seen the bible at work in peoples lives.It is truly a miracle when you see thousands of people meeting together and not one policeman needed, and not even a piece of litter in sight.It is like another world.
Question [quote]In the matter of God's supremacy and his relationship with Jesus, the teaching of the Apostolic Fathers is fairly consistent with the teaching of Jesus, the disciples, and the apostles, as recorded in the Bible. All of them speak of God, not as a Trinity, but as a separate, eternal, almighty, all-knowing Being. And they speak of the Son of God as a separate, lesser, subordinate spirit creature whom God created to serve Him in accomplishing His will. And the holy spirit is nowhere included as an equal of God.[/quote]
Concerning the "Apostolic 'fathers'" Brenda, I prefer not to "go there", because many of them held to unscriptural doctrines as well. Some held up mary in esteem in which the Bible clearly does not give her. She was too a humble handmaiden of the Lord and in desparate need of a Savior. In her own words she rejoiced in God her savior.
I prefer to go right to the Bible, the "roadmap" if you will to the city, whose maker and builder is God.
If we head out on a Journey, and set aside our roadmap, we can find ourselves in some strange places...LOL
The Bible does not use the Word Trinity, BUT the concept is clearly taught in Scripture.
The Bible calls the Father God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God. All 3 have attributes only belonging to God.
For instance, all are worshipped. The Bible says in hebrews 1:6 that ALL the angels worship Jesus. You can see this too in the footnotes in the NWT with footnotes ..or let ...WORSHIP for Hebrew 1:6
Also if you look in the footnotes it says *invocation, PRAYER in regarding to Spephen appealing to Jesus.
Jesus has ALL power, and even can search the very heart of man [Revelation 2:23]The old testament tells us it is only God that has the power to search the very heart of man, yet the new testament says JESUS is the searcher of men's hearts.
The WT teaches Jesus is a mere created being, but my Bible says Jesus was the creator who is forever blessed.
Hebrews 1:10 the Father speaking to jesus says "THOU LORD, hast laid the foundation of the Earth, and the heavens are the works of THINE hands" speaking of Jesus.
Jesus is beconing to JW's everywhere [and Mormons and catholics and others who trust in their religions and not God's Son]to go to Jesus, where we are told to go to Him for Salvation. Any true servant of Jesus will point to Christ alone, not their religion or organization, but the Lord Jesus alone.
I have been serving Him alone now for going on 9 years, and the longer I've known Him, the sweeter He grows. I now have assurance of eternal life in Christ. I KNOW I have eternal life, and this life is in God's Son.[by very nature]
1 John 5:12-13 Do you have the Son?
Followup To
Question -
Who are we to put our faith and trust in?
Christians are to put faith in Christ...
“his disciples put their faith in him.”
—John 2:11
“know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ...”
—Galatians 2:16
“Paul...spoke about faith in Christ Jesus.”
—Acts 24:24
Quote:
...but the WT Society says to
“Put faith in a victorious organization.”
—March 1, 1979 WATCHTOWER page 1
Quote:
Quote:
Watchtower 1981 November 15 p.21
“Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation”
The Watchtower Society places great emphasis on the need for an Organisation, in fact the above quote shows that belonging to Jehovah's organisation is necessary for salvation. It is claimed that Jehovah has always operated through an Organisation and only ever one. (pe p. 192)
Since Jesus time this Organisation is said to be represented by the Faithful and Discreet Slave, a line of true worshippers that extends unbroken since the time of Jesus.
This raises the following questions;
- Is membership of an organisation necessary for salvation?
- Has Jehovah always operated through an organisation?
- Has this Faithful and Discreet Slave existed for the last 1900 years?
Necessary for Salvation
Quote:
Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12
“To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.”
The Watchtower publications regularly make it clear that salvation can only result from membership of Jehovah's organisation, or more specifically the Watchtower Society.
It may surprise many to learn that the word organisation never appears in the bible. One would imagine that if belonging to an organisation is essential for salvation then the bible would refer to that term at least once.
What do the scriptures actually say is necessary for salvation? It is repeatedly stated that it is faith in Jesus and the Father that results in everlasting life. Never once is it stated in either the Old or New Testaments that membership of an organisation is required for salvation.
(John 3:16) 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. . .
(John 3:36) 36 He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life. NWT
(John 5:40) 40 And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. NWT
(John 10:9) 9 I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage. NWT
(John 17:3) 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.NWT
Interesting to note that most Bibles say "This means eternal life their KNOWING you, the True God, and the one you sent Jesus Christ."
It certainly is different to take in knowledge than to know. Seeing as JW's are forbidden to pray to Jesus as Stephen did in Acts 7: 59-60, I'm not sure how they can come to know Him [by refusing to go to Him because they say He is a "lesser god"]
Warm agape love in Christ, Laurie
ps]I feel for you going through epilepsy. My prayers are with you and your precious little girl.
Answer -
Hi there Laurie, you said--"DISCIPLES PUT THEIR FAITH IN HIM.”—JOHN 2:11
Why wouldn't they? Here they were seeing Jesus' first miracle, an impressive evidence of miraculous power identifying Jesus as the promised Messiah. (John 11:40-44.)
Jehovah's Witnesses likewise put faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah.
"JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN CHRIST, NOT WORKS”—GALATIANS 2:16
Some members of the early Christian congregation believed that all the hundreds of laws that God gave through Moses, including the Ten Commandments, still applied. Paul in speaking to Jews who had become Christians, set about adjusting their wrong viewpoint-(Galatians 2:15, 16) he told them a righteous standing with God did not depend on perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, for in the imperfect human state, that was impossible. .”—Galatians 3:10-13.
Jehovah's Witnesses agree with Paul, we do not need to obey the Mosaic Law (works of law) to have a righteous standing with God.
PAUL...SPOKE ABOUT FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS.”—ACTS 24:24
“Felix arrived with Dru•sil´la his wife, who was a Jewess, and he sent for Paul and listened to him on the belief in Christ Jesus.”
JW's, like Paul, preach daily to people regarding Jesus.
“PUT FAITH IN A VICTORIOUS ORGANIZATION.”—MARCH 1, 1979 WATCHTOWER PAGE 1
The same Watchtower on p.20 has an article entitled;” To Whom Shall We Go but Jesus Christ? —(John 6:68, 69.) So as you can see JW's do have a great deal of faith in Jesus Christ.
WATCHTOWER 1981 NOVEMBER 15 P.21--“COME TO JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION FOR SALVATION”
The same Watchtower on p.28 tells all to –“ Feed Regularly on Bible Truths!
“The greatest Teacher that ever lived once stated that man does not live on bread alone, but also needs spiritual food, God's Word. From that, can we not reasonably conclude that Christians should feed regularly on spiritual food, even as they do on literal bread? Certainly. (Matt. 4:4)
All of this calls to mind the words of Jesus about the happiness of those who are conscious of their spiritual need. (Matt. 5:3) … if we are truly conscious of our spiritual needs, we will regularly feed on Bible truths, finding time to do so and appreciating them to the full. The reward? Well, we will be helped to pursue the course of godly devotion, which is “beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come.”—1 Tim. 4:8.”
J.W's feed on BIBLE truths and the Watchtower urges Witnesses to do so.
"THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY PLACES GREAT EMPHASIS ON THE NEED FOR AN ORGANISATION"
Yes just as the bible does--To fulfill the Bible's requirements, it must be organized.--
Heb. 10:24, 25:- (To carry out this Scriptural command, there must be Christian meetings that we can attend on a consistent basis. Such an arrangement encourages us to express love toward others, not only concern about self.)
1 Cor. 1:10:- (Such unity would never be achieved if the individuals did not meet together, benefit from the same spiritual feeding program, and respect the agency through which such instruction was provided.)
1 Pet. 2:17:-- (Does that include only those who may meet together for worship in a particular private home? Not at all; it is an international brotherhood, as shown by Galatians 2:8, 9 and 1 Corinthians 16:19.)
Matt. 24:14:-- (For all nations to be given the opportunity to hear that good news, the preaching must be carried out in an orderly way, with suitable oversight. Love for God and for one's fellowman has caused people around the earth to unite their efforts to do this work.)
"BELONGING TO JEHOVAH'S ORGANISATION IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION."
Yes, because the bible shows; God has chosen a “people for his name” (Acts 15; 14) today, and he instructs all righthearted ones to attach themsleves to his people.
Noah had to get on the Ark, Lot had to flee from the city, the Jews had to flee to the mountains, and so on, God has always had a means of escape, today he tells mankind to; flee to his true organization. Heb. 5:9 : Jas. 2:14, 26:
The Israelites were “Jehovah's congregation” for some 1,500 years. Among them were those who served as God's channel to teach his Law. (1 Chronicles 28:8; 2 Chronicles 17:7-9) In the first century C.E., Jehovah brought forth the Christian organization. Congregations were formed, and they functioned under the direction of a governing body made up of apostles and older men. (Acts 15:22-31) Likewise today, Jehovah deals with his people through an organized body.
JEHOVAH HAS ALWAYS OPERATED THROUGH AN ORGANISATION AND ONLY EVER ONE?
The Bible shows that God has always guided his servants in an organized way. For example, men of faith such as Abraham led their families and servants in worshiping Jehovah. Jehovah made known his will for Abraham by speaking with him. (Genesis 12:1) And God instructed him to pass this information on to others, saying: “I have become acquainted with [Abraham] in order that he may command his sons and his household after him so that they shall keep Jehovah's way.” (Genesis 18:19) Here was an orderly arrangement for a group of people to worship Jehovah properly.
Later, when the Israelites increased in numbers and became millions, Jehovah did not let each one worship in his own way, separate from any organized arrangement. No, the Israelites were formed into a nation of organized worshipers. The nation of Israel was called “Jehovah's congregation.” (Numbers 20:4; 1 Chronicles 28:8) If you were a true worshiper of Jehovah back then, you had to be part of that congregation of worshipers, not separate from it.—Psalm 147:19, 20.
Did Jehovah ever use more than one organization during any period of time? In Noah's day only Noah and those with him inside the ark had God's protection and survived the floodwaters. (1 Peter 3:20) Also, in the first century there were not two or more Christian organizations. God dealt with just the one. There was just the “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Ephesians 4:5) Likewise in our day Jesus Christ foretold that there would be only one source of spiritual instruction for God's people.
JW's believe “All scripture is inspired of God” and the inspired scriptures answer; Yes, it is not a point the Watchtower or JW's has invented, it is scriptural.
THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE, A LINE OF TRUE WORSHIPPERS THAT EXTENDS UNBROKEN SINCE THE TIME OF JESUS.
?No, At Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus appointed a “slave” ( group of people) to provide (spiritual) food at the proper time for his “domestics.” (disciples)
Likewise in 1914 when Jesus was enthroned as King, it was time to inspect that “slave.” (group of believers) again. For the most part, he found that the “slave” had proved itself “faithful and discreet.” Hence, he appointed it “over all his belongings.” (Matthew 24:45-47)
IS MEMBERSHIP OF AN ORGANISATION NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?
The bible shows, God has never acted without first warning the people, and then providing a means of escape, (Noah Ark) Lot angels, today he tells mankind to flee to his ark of salvation, his organization.(Hebrews 10;24,25)
HAS JEHOVAH ALWAYS OPERATED THROUGH AN ORGANISATION?
Yes.
THE WORD ORGANISATION NEVER APPEARS IN THE BIBLE.
The book of Acts provides us with a most reliable and comprehensive history of the spectacular beginning and rapid development of the Christian ORGANIZATION, first among the Jews and then among the Samaritans and the Gentile nations.
In the formation, organization, and subsequent direction of the Christian congregation, the apostles occupied a primary position. (1Co 12:28; Eph 4:11) Although they were joined by others of the “older men” in such supervision, they formed a principal part of the governing body of the expanding Christian congregation, and this body was recognized by the early Christians everywhere as the channel of communication used by God to render decisions and direct the affairs of the congregation throughout the earth. (Ac 2:42; 8:14-17; 11:22; 15:1, 2, 6-31; 16:4, 5)
Christianity has always been organized.
BEING PART OF AN ORGANISATION IS NOT REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
How wrong you are, when Jesus preached, what did those who listened next do? Answer-; attach themselves to Jesus, they didn't go wandering of independantly, forming their own little cliques. The preaching work done by Jesus and his early followers was organized. As followers listened, they joined and so in time they became an organization of faithful followers, joining that Christian organization was vital.
JOHN 17:3) MOST BIBLES SAY "THIS MEANS ETERNAL LIFE THEIR KNOWING YOU..”
According to John 17:3, Jesus said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” Many translations of this verse differ slightly from the New World Translation. Instead of saying “taking in knowledge” of God, they simply render the verb “to know” God or “knowing” God. HOWEVER, a number of scholars note that the sense of the word used in the original Greek involves something more—a continuous process, one that may even lead to intimate acquaintance with another.
JW'S ARE FORBIDDEN TO PRAY TO JESUS AS STEPHEN DID IN ACTS 7: 59-60
JW's are not “forbidden” by the WTBTS, they do not pray to Jesus because of their bible understanding. That event did NOT involve prayer, as Stephen saw Jesus in a vision and spoke to him directly. (Acts 7:56, 59; Revelation 1:17-19; 22:20) Bear in mind that simply speaking even to God does not in itself constitute a prayer. Adam and Eve spoke to God, offering excuses for their great sin, when He judged them following their sin in Eden. Their talking to him in that way was not a prayer. (Genesis 3:8-19) Hence, it would be incorrect to cite Stephen talking to Jesus as evidence that we actually should pray to him.
JW'S SAY JESUS IS A "LESSER GOD"
In the matter of God's supremacy and his relationship with Jesus, the teaching of the Apostolic Fathers is fairly consistent with the teaching of Jesus, the disciples, and the apostles, as recorded in the Bible. All of them speak of God, not as a Trinity, but as a separate, eternal, almighty, all-knowing Being. And they speak of the Son of God as a separate, lesser, subordinate spirit creature whom God created to serve Him in accomplishing His will. And the holy spirit is nowhere included as an equal of God.
Thus, in those late-first-century and early-second-century writings of the Apostolic Fathers, there is no support for Christendom's Trinity. They spoke of God, Jesus, and the holy spirit just as the Bible does and subsequently as Jehovah's Witnesses do also.
I thank you for your kind wishes regarding my health and my daughter, thankfully we know the truth from the bible and soon there will be no such thing as illness. I have God to thank for sending someone to my door to answer all of my questions and give our family a sure hope for the future.
All the best
Brenda
Answer "THE BIBLE DOES NOT USE THE WORD TRINITY, BUT THE CONCEPT IS CLEARLY TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE".
I disagree--The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, NOR THE EXPLICIT DOCTRINE as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person' and ‘nature' which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually THE TERMS DO NOT APPEAR IN THE BIBLE. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence' and ‘substance' were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.
I asked my Protestant Minister over 30 years ago now, why he taught the “Trinity” you know what his answer was; “It's a job it's what I'm told to teach”
I believed that false and defamatory doctrine for 19 years, now I know different. I can only pray that you too one day examine the bible with an open mind and not preconceived ideas.
