AboutThomas Expertise Have a question about jewelry repair or working with precious metal jewelry and gemstones? I am a working professional bench jeweler, involved everyday with setting stones in mountings, designing and making jewelry, repairing and limited custom manufacture. Over 30 years experience. If you work with jewelry as a hobby or as a profession, I might be able to help. I deal with the retail business, not mass production. Ask privately if you wish. See the box for that: It keeps your question between us. Please DO NOT ask MAKER'S MARKS, but metal quality marks are fine to ask. Please DO NOT ask diamond prices. See a gemologist for that.
Experience I have near 35 years experience at the sort of jewelry work I do.
Education/Credentials Education is English/Physics! Started in human resources, to advertising, to jewelry...wow, what a road. Now a jeweler for many years. I have had formal training in jewelry work and many shared experiences with top grade jewelers. We just never know were we will go or be. Follow your best, your dreams, with some discretion! Don't let the work tear up your body along the way.
Question QUESTION: Hello,
My name is Christy and I have a silver Onex ring that I just love and I need to enlarge the size from about a size 7 to nine. I have little saudering experience but if you could help with some direction i would be willing to try. Also could you send me some information about sanding metals...such as copper. silver and gold.
Thank you so much! I love this site!
Christy Page
Lodi , Ca IMAGE: Silver Onex Ring
ANSWER: Hi, Christy.
This is not your answer but is a request from me to you for a little more information. Have you ever soldered silver with a torch and silver solders? It is important I ask this since if you have not, you may now know the equipment needed to do the job. I can give you an idea how a silver ring would be sized larger and you can make up your mind is this is still something you want to try. Silver is actually more difficult than working with gold and with a stone the job is doubly difficult.
Christy, please use a follow-up to let me know. I might be able to give some useful advice. Fair enough?
God Bless. Thomas.
-------Thomas is back as promised-----------------------------------------
Christy, the reason I mentioned equipment is that to solder silver jewelry as in sizing a ring, you must have a good bit of practice and skill along with the tools to do the work properly. I will run through the basics of sizing a silver ring with a stone. When you read this decide if you think you want to try it or if it is best to go to a jewelers to have it done. Then, if you are set up to do the work, get back with me and we will get into the nitty gritty of finishing the work once the soldering part of sizing is done. Folks do not often realize the work is definitely a skill and craft developed through much practice with mistakes made along the way.
BASIC SIZING OF A SILVER RING WITH A STONE
This is the method for leaving the stone in place, a method which will work with some silver rings which are not too heavy. In most cases with heavy rings with stones, the stones must be removed or heat will destroy what is there.
First, the ring is cut across the center of the bottom shank (band) with a jewelers saw or rotary cut off disc of the very thin sort. The ring is then pushed up a steel ring mandrel with sizes marked in the steel until it reaches the desired size. (Be sure the sides of the ring are not starting to warp or crinkle in this opening up. If so, you will have to bend to sides out only at the lower part, making the ring egg shaped when done. In this case, it might be best not change the ring to the larger size.)
A piece of silver stock of proper thickness is cut to the width needed to fill the space. This is bent to the same curve as the new size and fitted into the opening in the ring band. (There are various means to keep the piece in place.)
The ring is coated with a boric acid/denatured alcohol mix and this is lit to burn it off and leave a fine coating of boric acid to protect the silver from heat tarnish(oxidation). With jewlers tweezers, the ring is turned upside down and the stone is immersed in a small heat proof (metal tin) cup of water. So, this leaves the stone under water and the part to solder above the water. A paste soldering flux is put on the joints both top and bottom sides. Silver solder is cut, with two small pieces with enough solder to flow into and fill the joint on each side of the new added piece of silver.
The torch is made ready, in this case an oxygen/fuel gas torch such as natural gas or propane with oxygen. A fairly large torch tip is put on the torch and a very strong flame is adjusted, still not too blue and oxygen rich. The silver will soak up much heat and the water will boil before the solder will flow so the flame must be strong enough to do it as quickly as possible, before the flux burns off or the water gets too low and the stone is damaged. If it does not go quickly, stop and use a stronger flame and start again with fresh solder.
The solder is touched with the flame to make it ball up for easy handling and picked up with flux on the end of a solder pick. This is simply a pointed thin metal rod of stainless steel or tungsten in a wooden handle. Put the flame on the silver at one joint and with the pick put the solder on the joint, holding it there until the solder flows. Once it flows heat as you can on the lower side of the ring shank even if only a little is reached with the water below it.
Now do the other side.
The soldering is done. Flip the ring over into the water to cool the hot part, even if is is mostly cooled somewhat already. Gently file out or sand out the extra solder flow on the inside an see if the joint is filled. If not, go back and solder again.
Christy, there you have the happy job of soldering a silver ring with a stone in place! This is not easy and believe me some practice is really needed and a really good torch with oxygen is needed, too. Care must be taken to remove the heat just after the solder flows to protect the metal from heat damage. Silver conducts heat so quickly the opposite side of a ring wants to be at hot as the side being soldered by the time the soldered side is hot enough for the solder to flow. That is why a strong flame is needed if one side is in water or wet sand to protect it from the heat.
If you need more info, please get back with me. I have been doing this work for many, many years. Believe me, the first years were spent learning, learning and more learning.
God Bless and Peace. Thomas.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thomas,
Thank you so much for all of your information. As to your question about my experience with saudering...I will tell you this. I have spent hours and hours in my garage playing with different methods of saudering just experimenting with anything and everything I could find....budget allowing..lol.anyway I have several different sizes of torches that i have played around with...none that I have mastered... I'm not sure that I am using the right flux for certain projects. I really need to take a class but I am limited financially and to tell you the truth there is not much offered in my area. So I was so excited to find this site....Thank you again.
Christy
Answer Christy, see the bottom for added information from today, 10-22-09.
QUESTION: Hello,
My name is Christy and I have a silver Onex ring that I just love and I need to enlarge the size from about a size 7 to nine. I have little saudering experience but if you could help with some direction i would be willing to try. Also could you send me some information about sanding metals...such as copper. silver and gold.
Thank you so much! I love this site!
Christy Page
Lodi , Ca
image: Jewelry-Gems-Minerals-689/2009/10/Silver-Onex-Ring.jpg
ANSWER: Hi, Christy.
This is not your answer but is a request from me to you for a little more information. Have you ever soldered silver with a torch and silver solders? It is important I ask this since if you have not, you may now know the equipment needed to do the job. I can give you an idea how a silver ring would be sized larger and you can make up your mind is this is still something you want to try. Silver is actually more difficult than working with gold and with a stone the job is doubly difficult.
Christy, please use a follow-up to let me know. I might be able to give some useful advice. Fair enough?
God Bless. Thomas.
-------Thomas is back as promised-----------------------------------------
Christy, the reason I mentioned equipment is that to solder silver jewelry as in sizing a ring, you must have a good bit of practice and skill along with the tools to do the work properly. I will run through the basics of sizing a silver ring with a stone. When you read this decide if you think you want to try it or if it is best to go to a jewelers to have it done. Then, if you are set up to do the work, get back with me and we will get into the nitty gritty of finishing the work once the soldering part of sizing is done. Folks do not often realize the work is definitely a skill and craft developed through much practice with mistakes made along the way.
BASIC SIZING OF A SILVER RING WITH A STONE
This is the method for leaving the stone in place, a method which will work with some silver rings which are not too heavy. In most cases with heavy rings with stones, the stones must be removed or heat will destroy what is there.
First, the ring is cut across the center of the bottom shank (band) with a jewelers saw or rotary cut off disc of the very thin sort. The ring is then pushed up a steel ring mandrel with sizes marked in the steel until it reaches the desired size. (Be sure the sides of the ring are not starting to warp or crinkle in this opening up. If so, you will have to bend to sides out only at the lower part, making the ring egg shaped when done. In this case, it might be best not change the ring to the larger size.)
A piece of silver stock of proper thickness is cut to the width needed to fill the space. This is bent to the same curve as the new size and fitted into the opening in the ring band. (There are various means to keep the piece in place.)
The ring is coated with a boric acid/denatured alcohol mix and this is lit to burn it off and leave a fine coating of boric acid to protect the silver from heat tarnish(oxidation). With jewlers tweezers, the ring is turned upside down and the stone is immersed in a small heat proof (metal tin) cup of water. So, this leaves the stone under water and the part to solder above the water. A paste soldering flux is put on the joints both top and bottom sides. Silver solder is cut, with two small pieces with enough solder to flow into and fill the joint on each side of the new added piece of silver.
The torch is made ready, in this case an oxygen/fuel gas torch such as natural gas or propane with oxygen. A fairly large torch tip is put on the torch and a very strong flame is adjusted, still not too blue and oxygen rich. The silver will soak up much heat and the water will boil before the solder will flow so the flame must be strong enough to do it as quickly as possible, before the flux burns off or the water gets too low and the stone is damaged. If it does not go quickly, stop and use a stronger flame and start again with fresh solder.
The solder is touched with the flame to make it ball up for easy handling and picked up with flux on the end of a solder pick. This is simply a pointed thin metal rod of stainless steel or tungsten in a wooden handle. Put the flame on the silver at one joint and with the pick put the solder on the joint, holding it there until the solder flows. Once it flows heat as you can on the lower side of the ring shank even if only a little is reached with the water below it.
Now do the other side.
The soldering is done. Flip the ring over into the water to cool the hot part, even if is is mostly cooled somewhat already. Gently file out or sand out the extra solder flow on the inside an see if the joint is filled. If not, go back and solder again.
Christy, there you have the happy job of soldering a silver ring with a stone in place! This is not easy and believe me some practice is really needed and a really good torch with oxygen is needed, too. Care must be taken to remove the heat just after the solder flows to protect the metal from heat damage. Silver conducts heat so quickly the opposite side of a ring wants to be at hot as the side being soldered by the time the soldered side is hot enough for the solder to flow. That is why a strong flame is needed if one side is in water or wet sand to protect it from the heat.
If you need more info, please get back with me. I have been doing this work for many, many years. Believe me, the first years were spent learning, learning and more learning.
God Bless and Peace. Thomas.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thomas,
Thank you so much for all of your information. As to your question about my experience with saudering...I will tell you this. I have spent hours and hours in my garage playing with different methods of saudering just experimenting with anything and everything I could find....budget allowing..lol.anyway I have several different sizes of torches that i have played around with...none that I have mastered... I'm not sure that I am using the right flux for certain projects. I really need to take a class but I am limited financially and to tell you the truth there is not much offered in my area. So I was so excited to find this site....Thank you again.
Christy
Dear Christy,
Thanks for the fine ratings and the follow-up. I will throw in a little more info which might help some.
Please visit the site for Contenti, an established jewelry supply house with a good reputation. The site has on line catalog which will provide a good look at some of the tools and supplies available. Even if you cannot order, you might get ideas of things you can get locally.
Click the box for Paste Flux for silver soldering. You can find a good paste flux in a small container at welding supply house, Handy Flux is one name of it. Otherwise, a good “green liquid” flux sold by jewelry supply stores will work but the paste does better on silver in my opinion.
Click the box for Pickling then look at Sparex pickling chemicals. This is sodium bisulfate and sometimes may be purchased at swimming pool supply stores as a chemical used in pool maintenance. I use a cheap crock pot for a heated pickle pot.
Powdered Boric Acid is mixed with denatured alcohol and used as a dip or brush-on for silver items. Light the alcohol and it burns away, leaving a fine coating of boric acid to help protect silver from tarnish while being soldered. Boric Acid can be found at drug stores and the alcohol from home supply, hardware and some paint stores.
Keep in mind: Silver is the fastest conductor of heat in the jewelry world of metals. That means lots of heat is needed to get the piece hot enough to cause solder to flow. A larger flame is better than a small hot flame since it produces more heat overall. Solder flow is more difficult with silver and larger flames and you might try using a solder pick to help guide the melting solder. This can be home made with stainless steel rod put into a wooden handle, like a tiny ice pick. Stainless must be cleaned and sanded off regularly since it is affected by the heat. Tungsten is better but this is a bought item and you likely cannot find the tungsten rod for the solder pick tip. Do not use regular steel because it must be stainless to even begin to work ok.
Again, best wishes with all your efforts. May your garage work prove successful. : )
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