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Dear Maria,
Could you help me with the following (all from de Amicitia):

1. “eoque magis, si habere se putant, quod officiose et amice et cum labore aliquo suo factum queant dicere” (71)
Is the following order for a literal translation for the “si” clause correct? “si (if) [ei] (they) putant (think) se habere (they have accu +infinitive) quod (what) queant dicere (they can say) factum [esse] (were accomplished) officiose et amice et cum labore aliquo suo (kindly, friendly and with some of their labor).

2. “primum quantum ipse efficere possis” (73)
Is “ipse” the same as “tu ipse”, meaning “yourself”? Can we say similarly “ego ipse”, “se ipse” or “se ipsa”? Is it true that if you just say “ipse”, then you need the verb endings to know whether it refers to myself, yourself or himself/herself?

3. “nec si qui ineunte aetate venandi aut pilae studiosi fuerunt, eos habere necessarios quos tum eodem studio praeditos dilexerunt.” (74)
Is it correct to think “necessarios” is an adj. accu, modifying “eos”, but in translation we need to treat it as an adv.? Can we use adv. “necessarie” instead? Also it seems “debemus” is understood after “habere”. How can we know this? (I would not have figured this out if I had not looked at Falconer’s translation.)

4. “Recte etiam praecipi potest in amicitiis, ne intemperata quaedam benevolentia, quod persaepe fit, impediat magnas utilitates amicorum” (75)
Is the entire “ne …” clause the subject of this sentence?

Thank you.
Robert

Answer
Dear Robert,

1.in “eoque magis, si habere se putant, quod officiose et amice et cum labore aliquo suo factum queant dicere” (Cicero, De amicitia, 71) your  order for a literal translation for the “si” clause is correct, as “si(if) putant (they think) se habere (they have accu +infinitive) quod (what) queant(they can)  dicere (say) factum [esse] (were accomplished) officiose et amice et cum labore aliquo suo (kindly, friendly and with some of their labor)" corresponds to "especially if they think that they have done anything which they can speak of as something kind, friendly and laborious".  


2. in “primum quantum ipse efficere possis” (73) the pronoun  “ipse” is the same as “tu ipse”, meaning “yourself”.
You could  say similarly “ego ipse”, as a subject, but not “se ipse” or “se ipsa” because “se” is not a nominative case like “ipse”/”ipsa”.
“Se” can be in fact an accusative case or an ablative [See the declension of the reflexive 3rd person  pronoun: SUI (genitive) SIBI (dative). SE (accusative). SE (ablative)].
Finally  it is true that if you just say “ipse”, then you need the verb endings to know whether it refers to "myself", "yourself" or "himself/herself".


3. “nec si qui ineunte aetate venandi aut pilae studiosi fuerunt, eos habere necessarios quos tum eodem studio praeditos dilexerunt.” (74) “necessarios” is not an adj. here, but a noun (necessarius.i) meaning “friend” (see Lewis & Short).
It is in the accusative plural (friends) used as an apposition to  “eos”, i.e.:”nor (nec)....[they must] have (habere) as [their] friends (necessarios) those (eos) whom (quos) they loved (dilexerunt) at that time (tum) being gifted (praeditos) / because they were gifted with the same (eodem) fondness(studio)”.

So,as you can see,  you cannot use the adverb “necessarie” .
Also, “debent” (3rd person plural)  is understood after “habere” as it is related to “si qui...studiosi fuerunt” (if some ....were devoted to...) .
Lastly we can  know that we must use the verb “debent” as an understood verb before “habere” because in the previous passage there is  “iudicandae sunt”, i.e. a passive periphrastic, just a structure implying  necessity.


4. in “Recte etiam praecipi potest in amicitiis, ne intemperata quaedam benevolentia, quod persaepe fit, impediat magnas utilitates amicorum” (75)  the entire “ne … impediat ...” final clause is just  the Substantive Clause which is used as the Subject of the main clause “Recte etiam praecipi potest...” where the passive infinitive “praecipi” (to be prescribed) from “praecipere”( to give rules or precepts to any one, to advise, to prescribe) takes this final substantive clause as its own subject.

Best regards,

Maria

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Maria

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I received my Ph.D. in Classics (summa cum laude) from Genova University (Italy).

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