Latin/grammar

Advertisement


Question
Dear Maria,

Can you help me with the following (all from de Amicitia except the last one, which is from Allen and Greenough):

1. “Quae tamen si tolerabiles erunt, ferendae sunt” (78)
Is “quae” =”aliquae” n. pl.?  Does it serve as the subject of “erunt” and implicitly “ferendae sunt” also?

2. “quaeque ipsi non tribuunt amicis, haec ab iis desiderant” (82)
Is “quaeque” a single word or is it equivalent to ”et quae”?

3. “In talibus ea, quam iam dudum tractamus, stabilitas amicitiae confirmari potest, cum homines benevolentia coniuncti primum cupiditatibus iis quibus ceteri serviunt imperabunt, deinde …” (82)
Is my understanding of the logic of these sentences correct: When (cum) men (homines) united by the good will (benevolentia coniuncti) first (primum) …, second (deinde) …, then among such men (in talibus) that stable friendship (ea stabilitas amicitiae) can be formed (confirmari potest).

4. "Num recentium iniuriarum memoriam deponere posse?" (586)
"Utrum partem regni petiturum esse, an totum erepturum?" (586)
Since in these sentences, the subj. accu. is omitted, how can we tell for whom the question is addressed to? For example, the 1st question is for “he” and the 2nd for “you”.

Thank you.
Robert

Answer
Dear Robert,

1.in “Quae tamen si tolerabiles erunt, ferendae sunt” (Cicero, De amicitia, 78)  “quae”  is the nominative feminine  plural of the relative pronoun “qui”  which refers to the previous nouns “iurgia, maledicta, contumeliae” and agrees with the nearest , i.e. “contumeliae” (See AG 287. Rules of agreement).
Moreover “quae”  serves as the subject of “erunt” and implicitly of “ferendae sunt”.

In short, “...iurgia, maledicta, contumeliae, quae tamen si tolerabiles erunt, ferendae sunt” literally means:”... quarrels (iurgia), abuses (maledicta), invectives (contumeliae), which (quae)however (tamen), if they vill be (si ...erunt) endurable (tolerabiles), are to be endured (ferendae sunt) “, i.e.:”... quarrels , abuses, invectives, that however we must endure, if they will be endurable...”.


2.in  “quaeque ipsi non tribuunt amicis, haec ab iis desiderant” (82) “quaeque” is  equivalent to ”et quae” meaning “and these things that“, i.e. “what” in “what /these things that (quaeque)  they themselves (ipsi) do not give (non tribuunt)  [their ] friends (amicis), these things (haec) they require (desiderant) from (ab) them(iis)”, i.e. “ and they require from their friends what they themselves do not give them...”.


3. here’s the logic sequence of  “In talibus ea, quam iam dudum tractamus, stabilitas amicitiae confirmari potest, cum homines benevolentia coniuncti primum cupiditatibus iis quibus ceteri serviunt imperabunt, deinde …..” (82) :
“When (cum) men (homines) united by the good will (benevolentia coniuncti) first (primum) will overcome (imperabunt) those (iis) passions (cupiditatibus) to which (quibus) other men (ceteri) are slaves (serviunt), second (deinde) ….., then among such men (in talibus) that (ea) stability (stabilitas)  of  friendship (amicitiae), which (quam) we are discussing (tractamus) for some time (iam dudum),  can (potest) be confirmed /be made secure (confirmari)”, i.e.:
“When  men united by a good will  first will overcome those  passions  to which other men  are slaves , second  ..…, then it is among such men  that this stability of  friendship, of which we are treating  for some time,  can  be corroborated......”,


4. in "Num recentium iniuriarum memoriam deponere posse?" (AG 586, from Caesar, De Bello Gallico, book I, chapter 14, section 1-3 ) Caesar is answering Divĭco, a distinghuished Helvetian ambassador to Caesar, and says : “could he lay aside the memory of recent wrongs? “ as a rhetorical  indirect question introduced by “num”.
So, since this indirect discourse depends on the main clause ”His Caesar ita respondit:   .... (section 1) “meaning “To these words Caesar thus replied:-that...... ”: and is  followed by many indirect questions, it is clear that the subject must be “se” in Latin and then “he” in English.

In "Utrum partem regni petiturum esse, an totum erepturum?" (AG 586 from Livy, The History of Rome, Book 45, chapter 19, section 15) there is a physician called Stratius who is talking to Attalus, king Eumenes brother, and asks him many indirect questions such as: “ utrum partem regni petiturum esse, an totum erepturum ”  just meaning:” will you ask part of the regal power or seize the whole?”

In short, it is the context and especially the beginning of the indirect discourse that indicates for whom the question is addressed to.

Best regards,

Maria

Latin

All Answers


Answers by Expert:


Ask Experts

Volunteer


Maria

Expertise

I am an expert in Latin Language and Literature and I'll be glad to answer any questions concerning this matter.

Experience

Over 25 years teaching experience.

Education/Credentials
I received my Ph.D. in Classics (summa cum laude) from Genova University (Italy).

This expert accepts donations:

©2016 About.com. All rights reserved.