AboutJason Expertise Please state your experience or current knowledge of the LDS faith so that I can better answer your question. I served a two-year LDS mission in the Dominican Republic. I have been a member of the LDS Church my entire life. I was married for eternity (sealed) to my beautiful wife just this year. I don't know all the answers, but any that require my perspective, I would be glad to try or help find the answer.
Experience I have been a member of the LDS Church my entire life. I served a two-year LDS mission in the Dominican Republic. I was married for eternity (sealed) to my beautiful wife just this year. My father has taught LDS religion classes as his profession most of my life. I have been somewhat aquainted with members of the Fundamentalist LDS faith and have some friends that were a part of that religion.
Organizations The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon Church)
Big Brothers, Big Sisters.
Education/Credentials BS - Mechanical Engineering, Brigham Young University
MBA - Currently enrolled, University of Utah
Question I know that you believe that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus face to face. I was just wondering how you get around Ex. 33:20 which says "And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." I am not trying to start a debate. I am just curious. Thanks.
Answer Jaycee,
Thanks for the curiosity! You are right. I do affirm with others of my faith that Joseph Smith, at the age of 14, saw God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ face to face in a grove of trees in upstate New York in 1820. You can read his account here: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1
I have found this to be an interesting topic to research in the Bible. It is easy to see how there can be such varying ideas on the principle of seeing God the Father. We are not the only church to believe He presents Himself to man, but many cite the scripture you mentioned, and others, to defend that He does not. It is interesting to note that this very thing (disagreement on the meanings intended by Bible passages) was one of the main reasons that led Joseph to seek God in prayer that morning (See verses 11 and 12 of his account).
That said, you can read in verse 11 of Exodus 33 that “the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.” To me that is very clearly a personal, visual encounter with God. How could you be “face to face” and not see His face? And he even adds “as a man speaketh unto his friend” which seems to remove all doubt. Then it starts getting confusing in verse 18 when Moses beseeches the Lord with “shew me thy glory”, to which the Lord responds with the verse you mentioned. This verse 20 seems to completely contradict verse 11?! However, there is a way to satisfy both of these statements. The short answer is that man cannot see God – in their natural, fallen state – and live, but they can be “quickened” or “transfigured” to be able to withstand His presence.
In order to give you a full explanation, I have to share two things with you:
1. In our 8th Article of Faith, we state that “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”. The current King James Version of the Bible (or any other modern version) has been handed down, copied, and translated many times and not always by those called of God to do so. We attribute some of the confusion found there to this evolution.
2. Article of Faith #9 states “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. “ So the Book of Mormon, which you have surely heard of, is “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” and is an ancient record of the Lord’s dealings with people on the American continents. We also have a translation of other records of Moses and Abraham, brought forth in the same manner, by the Prophet Joseph Smith.
In this other book of Moses, found in our “Pearl of Great Price,” there is a verse that helps greatly to clarify this apparent discrepancy. Moses 1:11: “But now mine eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.” So under this new light, both of these verses can be true. Moses DID see the Lord and speak with Him face to face, in a “transfigured” state (or having His glory upon him and seeing through “spiritual eyes”). But at the same time, truly no man can see God (with his natural eyes) and live! It makes sense that He would want to have that personal interaction with His children and especially His chosen prophets, but also that His full glory would be too great for the natural, fallen man to bear.
In further revelation received by the Prophet Joseph Smith (Doctrine and Covenants 67) this is elaborated yet further:
11 For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.
12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.
Other interesting accounts of seeing the Lord: Gen. 12:7, Gen. 32:30, Matt. 5:8, Heb. 12:14, Daniel 10:5-6, Acts 7:55, Exo. 24:9-17, 2 Chron. 1:7, 2 Chron. 18:18, Num. 12:6-8, 1 Sam. 3:21, Acts. 7:2, Abraham 1:1
That may be the long version, but I wanted to make sure you have all the information I do. Please feel free to ask any follow-up question you may have. I definitely don’t know it all, but I will be glad to help find the answers. How great it is to know that Our Father in Heaven DOES love us enough to want to communicate with us in the most personal ways possible. I have felt Him close on many occasions and have felt His communication through the gentle promptings of His holy spirit. I am glad to have these accounts of His chosen prophets with whom He has personally appeared and hope to be able to stand before Him myself, either in this life or after!
I wish you the best, and know that God will bless you for your interest in Him and His gospel.
