AboutMichael Kelley Expertise For a different viewpoint on Mormonism for your questions, try me. I am a staunch believer in the Book of Mormon and belong to another church (the Church of Christ)that is set up identically to the Biblical church. If there are things about traditional Mormonism that trouble you or you have questions about, just ask and you might find the answers from the Book of Mormon to be quite surprising. I have been studying the scriptures diligently for 16 years under the school of hard knocks... I may not have all of the answers but will sure go find them if I don`t. I`m strongest on Biblical and Book of Mormon doctrines, and am also somewhat familiar with Mormon history and archaeology.
Question QUESTION: how are you Michael,
i am so busy lately for my job and also prepared the truth i found to you about BOM may be created by Satan, sorry to say that, i will tell you the whole story later, but before that i want to be sure some information .
base on the BOM,it record before christ came to man between 600 BC to 75 BC, there already have so many church been established and people accepted Jesus and believe the gospel ,is that true ?
and can you tell me more evident that to support BOM like bible .
thank you and God bless you :)
ANSWER: Hi Cheong,
I will be happy to answer your questions. I will reply to each below in **, Mike
You sent: how are you Michael,
i am so busy lately for my job and also prepared the truth i found to you about BOM may be created by Satan, sorry to say that, i will tell you the whole story later, but before that i want to be sure some information .
**Mike: Be careful on what you attribute to Satan. Remember the Pharisees accused Jesus of having the devil and working under the power of Beelzebub... an accusation does not make it so.
base on the BOM,it record before christ came to man between 600 BC to 75 BC, there already have so many church been established and people accepted Jesus and believe the gospel ,is that true ?
**Mike: I have a bit of trouble understanding your statement, probably due to our language differences. The BoM covers several different peoples, the Jaredites that covers 2000 to 400 BC, the Mulakites that merged with the Nephites from 400 BC, and the Nephites and Lamanites from 600 BC to around 250 AD. The BoM does not claim or pretend to cover all peoples or all ages... only specific people who migrated to the Americas during those times I mentioned. There easily could have been other peoples who were visited by Christ that the BoM does not make mention of. The BoM covers only one tribe, not the other lost tribes. Jesus says in the Bible that He had other sheep and that He would visit them and THEY WILL HEAR HIS VOICE... not the voice of His apostles or Gentiles.
and can you tell me more evident that to support BOM like bible .
thank you and God bless you :)
**Mike: Yes, even public school histories mention of the Aztecs thinking Cortez was the bearded white God who had promised to return. The Polynesians have similar traditions and thought Captian Cook was this bearded white God. Just about EVERY Native American tribe has traditions of a Bearded White God who had healed the sick, raised the dead, and promised to return. Many have traditions that each tribe has that is similar to Biblical accounts such as the flood of Noah. I have photos of the 10 commandments written in 600 BC style Hebrew that were found in New Mexico. Antis whine about the BoM mentioning the Nephites had the grain barley while so called "experts" said the Native Americans had no barley. I was living in Phoenix, Arizona at the time they were building I-10 and had uncovered Hohokum ruins that had... you guessed it, barley... that even grew when planted. I could go on and on with evidence after evidence... won't make an iota of difference to those who have already been indoctrinated against the BoM and Mormism by those who hate the truth. Even the Bible in Isaiah 29 that speaks of a book that shall "whisper from the dust" (was buried) that a learned man could not read (professor Anthon) while an unlearned man could read (Joseph Smith) and would teach good doctrine. The Bible was never buried.
Again be careful of what you say is of Satan, we shall each be held accountable at the judgment day... you don't want to be found fighting against the word of God. The Pharisees thought they were doing God's work yet fought against it always. Just being religious does not make one right.
Mike
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QUESTION: thanks Mike,I hate myself so much when I have a lot of important thing to say sometime but i can express it in my language, sorry about that i barely speak English, i am Chinese and still learning English.I come from Macau and live in Houston Tx now.
I hope i will have enough time to tell you my background that you may get more idea why i say BOM may not from God.I have fought with Satan in so many time.
the question that confused you was base on the BOM, in between 600 and 75 BC,mean before christ was born , there already have so many churches and Christians and gospel of Jesus , is that right ?
second thing i want to know ,before BOM would you mind telling me the history of bible, why we choose these 66 books as old and new testament ? as i know in long time ago, there should be more than 66 , why we do not use it ?
God bless you :)
ANSWER: Hi Cheong, I will reply to your message below in **, Mike
You sent: QUESTION: thanks Mike,I hate myself so much when I have a lot of important thing to say sometime but i can express it in my language, sorry about that i barely speak English, i am Chinese and still learning English.I come from Macau and live in Houston Tx now.
**Mike replies: No problem, I understand. Often I have the same problem... not because of a difference in language but because I lack the eloquence in conveying to another what I know is the perfect truth and they end up disbelieving what I tell them. Even Jesus could not convince others of the truth who had hard hearts or who had already been indoctrinated with the traditions of men.
I hope i will have enough time to tell you my background that you may get more idea why i say BOM may not from God.I have fought with Satan in so many time.
**Mike: I have fought with Satan too. Yet every time I open the BoM the truth of God shines forth. When I open the books of men such as the LDS Pearl of Great Price, or a book about Buddism or other non-Christian works... I find confusion and contradiction.
the question that confused you was base on the BOM, in between 600 and 75 BC,mean before christ was born , there already have so many churches and Christians and gospel of Jesus , is that right ?
**Mike: I think I now understand... you are asking why there were Christian based churches or people who believed in Christ before He was born of Mary? Is that right? The answer is simple... the Nephites had many glorious prophesies of the coming of Christ, and understood His mission and the cross before His coming, therefore were already worshipping Him even before He was born. They understood that the Law of Moses was only a type and shadow of Christ so while they still performed the rituals of the Law of Moses, they in their hearts worshipped Christ. Even in the Bible many of the prophets understood the coming of Christ such as Isaiah who had many prophesies of Christ. Even David, who was just a king and not technically a prophet had many psalms given to him that were direct prophesies of Christ.
second thing i want to know ,before BOM would you mind telling me the history of bible, why we choose these 66 books as old and new testament ? as i know in long time ago, there should be more than 66 , why we do not use it ?
God bless you :)
**Mike: Excellent question. The Bible is a compilation of various histories, psalms, proverbs, gospels, letters and prophecies. It was up to a committee of men to determine what was to be considered scripture and what was not to be. It is VERY possible that these men rejected many writings that were perfectly good scripture... why? Who knows, I do know the church at that time had already apostatized to quite a degree and had turned to Catholocism... and they have have thrown out many good scriptures because such scriptures opposed their corrupted beliefs. The Bible itself mentions lost books that are not included in the Bible such as:
1. Book of Wars (Num. 21:14)
2. Book of Jasher (Josh 10:13)
3. Acts of Solomon (1 Kings 11:41)
4. Book of Samuel the Seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
5. Book of Gad the Seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
6. Book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29)
7. Prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29)
8. Visions of Iddo the Seer (2 Chr. 9:29)
9. Book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)
10. Book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)
11. Sayings of the Seers (2 Chr. 33:19)
12. Lost epistle of Paul to the Corintians (1 Cor. 5:9)
13. lost Epistle to the Ephesians (Eph 3:3)
14. Lost Epistle to the Laodicians (Col. 4:16)
15. Prophecies of Enoch (Jude 1:14)
16. Lost Old Testament prophecies of Christ (Matt 2:23)
**Mike adds: It was for this very purpose that the BoM came forth... to fill in the gaps where the Bible is missing books or does not teach certain doctrines very clearly. Case in point is baptism where some churches sprinkle infants, others immerse adults, and others dismiss baptism altogether... yet it was so important that Jesus Himself mandated that He had to be baptized Himself in order to fulfill all righteousness. The BoM clarifies and amplifies the subjecy of baptism and other Christian doctrines that most churches stumble over. Why on earth would Satan cause a book to be written that not only reteaches Biblical Christianity AND make it much more easy to understand??? Why would Satan destroy his own kingdom? Other religious works such as the Koran either never mention Christ or dismiss Him as some sort of prophet but do not revere Him as the ONLY Begotten Son of God, the only True Saviour. The BoM diligently leads one to worship only Jesus Christ and none other.
God Bless,
Mike
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: thanks a lot Mike,
I try to understand your view,
1) you means God given us BOM today because the most important part of gospel were taken by the satan's churches,which mean bible does not carry the perfect gospel now to save us ? the salvation must go through the BOM ?
2) what is the missing things that God want us to know ? what would happen if i just holding the bible without it ?
3) we can not go to heaven ?
4) we will not know who is Jesus, the son of God, send by father, died on the cross,save sinner,wash their sinner away, restore the lost relationship with father ?
5) we will not have eternal life ?
6) we do not know Jesus is only true God, father , son ,holy spirit are trinity ?
7) we do not know how to accept Christ Jesus as our Lord and savior,get baptize and go to the church ?
before 1827 AD,JS got BOM, did any tribes,any Jews know the record of BOM, mean inside the history or only JS was the first one know what happened between 600 BC to 421 AD .
respond your question "Why would Satan destroy his own kingdom? "
If BOM truly from Satan,who want to be GOD that all nation worship him (Isa 14;12-15)(Luk 4;5-7)
he pretend Jesus,this is false christ and perform great sign and miracles to deceive us (Matt 24;24) to believe he is Christ .
satan will not tell you the true name such as "satan's churches,satan's kindom,evil angel" that sort of name ,he is the father of lies (john 8;44-45)he is just pretending all different gods of the world, he pretend died prophet like samuel spoke to Saul(samuel 28;13-16)(1 chroni 10;13-14)why he could not pretend Moroni speak to JS
?(2 corint 11;14-15)
do not let he fool you, satan not just only want we sin ,he also will tell the truth but the meaning will be distort,like he spoke to Eve,he distort the meaning of the word of God, he spoke to Jesus by quoting the Pslm to test him .
He pretend Buddha,tell you how to save yourself by focus on your behavior.
he pretend Allah, lead muslim worship him but against Jesus.
he pretend virgin marry,perform great miracle to deceive many.
he pretend God Jehovah,Jehovah witness insist Jesus is not God,all the churches have been control by satan because they worship Jesus.
Satan pretend Jesus,create BOM ,just want to being worship,and change the history whatever he want.also he created the false message and word of God against bible, confuse the truth,in other to strike bible absolute position, bible is not perfect, then later whatever Satan pretend God's word , there are no standard for us to proof true or false because bible truly say that Satan will deceive us . (2 corin 2;11)
and history that Jesus actually does not do,
so the point is If Jesus truly walk in this history of BOM ? if not ,Jesus will deny and not bless this book,how could we agree the fake ? on the other hand , he also love them, he will send more his follower to them the truth. is that right ?
God bless you :)
Answer Hi Cheong, I will answer your questions below in **, Mike
You sent: QUESTION: thanks a lot Mike,
I try to understand your view,
1) you means God given us BOM today because the most important part of gospel were taken by the satan's churches,which mean bible does not carry the perfect gospel now to save us ? the salvation must go through the BOM ?
**Mike replies: I look at it a bit differently. I look at the Bible and BoM as tools God uses to teach us the truth. Like any tool, a tool can wear with age... this does not mean it is no longer a tool but has signs of wear... like a saw that gets dull after much use. I view the Bible as a tool that has signs of wear over time... this does not mean it is no longer a useful tool. I view the BoM as another tool, newer. A good carpenter will use both a hammer and a saw to build a house, not just a saw. The BoM was sent to compliment the Bible, to prove the Bible is true. Salvation only comes through Jesus Christ, not the tools of Jesus. Some seem to think the Bible saves them, or their church. To me this is making an idol out of a book or building... salvation only comes through Jesus. Both the Bible and BoM are excellent tools to lead one to Christ. The BoM is only more clearer and easier to understand because it was translated only once and is not missing as much as the Bible is.
2) what is the missing things that God want us to know ? what would happen if i just holding the bible without it ?
**Mike: The missing things that the BoM clarifies (yet also exists in the Bible) are: 1. Baptism by Immersion 2. Laying of Hands to receive the Holy Ghost and Preisthood Authority 3. Divine callings of Priesthood (ministry) 4. Works of repentence and righteousness a key part in receiving the grace of God 5. Being judged by our works by the books. All of these things are taught in the Bible but are obscure and most churches do not practice these Biblical teachings. The BoM helps correct these errors and puts down the false doctrines of men.
3) we can not go to heaven ?
**Mike: That depends on how accountable you are. If you are given sufficient information to know, or have the chance to know, the BoM is true and of God, and if you reject it and fight against it (and fight against the true word of God... I would fear your salvation would be in peril. On the other hand if you never heard of the BoM and never had the chance to know the truth and reject it out of ignorance, I believe God's grace covers our ignorance. That is a strong BoM teaching, that the ignorant are saved by grace alone.
4) we will not know who is Jesus, the son of God, send by father, died on the cross,save sinner,wash their sinner away, restore the lost relationship with father ?
**Mike: The Bible teaches who Jesus is, but on many points is not perfectly clear. Even so, the BoM teaches that we should not reject the things of God because of the weaknesses of men (their weakness in translation or understanding). The BoM teaches the very same concept of Jesus as the Bible does... I know of Baptists who have said as much when they finally read the BoM.
5) we will not have eternal life ?
**Mike: We will all have eternal life no matter what, the question is will it be in heaven or hell.
6) we do not know Jesus is only true God, father , son ,holy spirit are trinity ?
**Mike: The BoM teaches the same concept of the trinity as the Bible does... yet the word trinity exists in neither. Even so, the Bible is not perfectly clear on this... I have seen Bible only Christians argue endlessly with much contention over the particulars of the trinity concepts.
7) we do not know how to accept Christ Jesus as our Lord and savior,get baptize and go to the church ?
**Mike: The Bible teaches this, but is not clear on which church to join... there are 10,000s of different Bible only churches, each claiming to be the Lord's yet each having diverse doctrines. The BoM is very clear that the church should be named the Church of Christ and what doctrines the church should have.
before 1827 AD,JS got BOM, did any tribes,any Jews know the record of BOM, mean inside the history or only JS was the first one know what happened between 600 BC to 421 AD .
**Mike: The Jews in Israel were not aware of where the lost tribes went to or what happened to them. The Nephites were very aware of their history up until they buried their histroy and were all destroyed in an epic civil war. JS was the first one to translate their record.
respond your question "Why would Satan destroy his own kingdom? "
If BOM truly from Satan,who want to be GOD that all nation worship him (Isa 14;12-15)(Luk 4;5-7)
he pretend Jesus,this is false christ and perform great sign and miracles to deceive us (Matt 24;24) to believe he is Christ .
**Mike: Sure there are many false prophets today, even in the Restoration. I believe Brigham Young was a false prophet. Even so this does not mean that it is impossible for there to be TRUE prophets today. Antis seem to summarily dismiss ALL prophets and revelations today, as if God is dead and no longer speaks to mankind today. Remember when Moses laid down the staff and it turned into a serpent and Pharoes magicians did the same? Just because a magician can perform a miracle of Satan does not mean God cannot perform a true miracle.
satan will not tell you the true name such as "satan's churches,satan's kindom,evil angel" that sort of name ,he is the father of lies (john 8;44-45)he is just pretending all different gods of the world, he pretend died prophet like samuel spoke to Saul(samuel 28;13-16)(1 chroni 10;13-14)why he could not pretend Moroni speak to JS
?(2 corint 11;14-15)
**Mike: Of course, I am perfectly and painfully aware of the power of Satan to deceive. Again I say this does not mean God cannot perform true miracles or that He is dead. Again I ask... and no Bible only Christian has ever been able to provide... name one false doctrine in the BoM... just one. Surely a work of Satan will contain MANY.
do not let he fool you, satan not just only want we sin ,he also will tell the truth but the meaning will be distort,like he spoke to Eve,he distort the meaning of the word of God, he spoke to Jesus by quoting the Pslm to test him .
**Mike: Yet Jesus also quoted scripture many times. Just because Satan twists scriptures does this mean Jesus is also twisting scripture?
He pretend Buddha,tell you how to save yourself by focus on your behavior.
he pretend Allah, lead muslim worship him but against Jesus.
he pretend virgin marry,perform great miracle to deceive many.
**Mike: I don't disagree with that one bit. Yet what are the false doctrines that the BoM teaches? It is one thing to say it is of the devil, quite another to prove it.
he pretend God Jehovah,Jehovah witness insist Jesus is not God,all the churches have been control by satan because they worship Jesus.
Satan pretend Jesus,create BOM ,just want to being worship,and change the history whatever he want.also he created the false message and word of God against bible, confuse the truth,in other to strike bible absolute position, bible is not perfect, then later whatever Satan pretend God's word , there are no standard for us to proof true or false because bible truly say that Satan will deceive us . (2 corin 2;11)
**Mike: The LDS may think that way, I sure do not. Again I pointed out 15 missing books that the BIBLE itself mentions... I did not make it up from thin air... clearly the Bible is missing books. The BoM says the great and abominable church (Catholic likely) would remove many plain and precious things from the Bible. From all the confusion I see in the 10,000s of different Bible only churches it is clear to me the Bible is not very plain on many key doctrines. Even so the BoM states that what remains in the Bible is still true and precious... not something to be dismissed or discarded. That is how I feel about the Bible. In reality the BoM strengthened my belief in the Bible and my understanding of the Bible. I understand the Bible better than many Bible scholars with high degrees that I have debated with.
and history that Jesus actually does not do,
so the point is If Jesus truly walk in this history of BOM ? if not ,Jesus will deny and not bless this book,how could we agree the fake ? on the other hand , he also love them, he will send more his follower to them the truth. is that right ?
God bless you :)
**Mike: Yes, Jesus walked with the Nephite peoples, just as He told the Jews He would in the Bible that He would visit other sheep and they would HEAR HIS VOICE.
Matthew 15 : 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
John 10 : 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
That's from your own Bible, I did not make it up. Jesus was sent to minister in person to the Jews and the Lost tribes only, not to the Gentiles. The BoM mentions Jesus also visited other tribes besides the BoM peoples, and they wrote and hid their records as well. I expect their records to come forth in the future as well... and their records, like the BoM, will teach the same gospel as the Bible does. They will NOT teach some bizarre and twisted gospel like the D&C or PoGP.
