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You are here: Experts > Religion/Spirituality > Christianity - Restorationism > Latter-day Saints > more from the searcher.
Expert: Michael Kelley - 8/21/2007
Question
Michael.
first off. Let me congratulate you on what I believe is a wonderful attempt at answering questions. I believe you have a good heart and truly want to help people. I myself have been searching truths.
my background: I was raised by my mixed Lutheran/protestant mother and father. My mother Joined the LDS(utah) When she was about 30 years old. I joined when I was 9 years. fell away in my teenage years, and then rededicated my life to the service of the lord in my mid 20's after what we call....(experiencing the world) I have somwhat of a unique perspective than many (raised utah lds). I was also raised in Alaska. In alaska we would joke (sadly) that we were NOT utah mormons. but still of the LDS faith. I will expound on that later.
anyway what I really wanted to point out to you and see if you can expain to me a few things please. Please realize my first statements of I am a truth seeker. My own personal quests thus far have only strengthend my own personal witness in christ.
so here goes.
Attached are a few answers you gave to another poster in your answer post titled "latter-day-saints".
You wrote: "Most people have problems with LDS beliefs such as polygamy, baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, 1st Presidency, a changing God etc. etc. These things are utterly absent in the Book of Mormon and even strongly taught AGAINST. I left the Utah LDS church BECAUSE I believe in the Book of Mormon"
I want to point out that you also said in this post:
What God was telling the people through Moses was that "You, mankind, do not add, delete or alter MY WORDS that I have commanded my servants to write". This certainly does not mean God cannot speak again and add more to the scriptures. God is not dead, nobody has placed a gag over God's mouth. Even the very gifts of the spirit that is spoken of in the New Testament such as prophecy, revelation, tongues etc. all denote a God that still speaks to His church. The Bible teaches God does not change, not even a shadow of variableness... therefore if God spoke in times of old, He also can speak today. The only time God ceases to speak is when men dwindle in unbelief and no longer are listening." end of your post.
So my question (most respecfully requiring clarification) is this. If you truly believe in the book of mormon- Then you know about Mormon's claims in his own words that he has not written "1/100th of an account" of what exactly was taught... especially when teaching the nephites in 3rd nephi after christs resurrection. then I also assume you must know about the sealed protion of the book of mormon that joseph smith was"commanded" not to translate at the time when he translated the portions we have published today.
I want to point this out to you and give you my (albeit poor analogy) You also said..."God is not dead, nobody has placed a gag over God's mouth."
My analogy of this statement is as follows:
Think of the D&C (giving the "new and everlasting covanents" e.g. temple marriage, baptism for the dead, etc.) OK here goes my humble attempt.....
1. God = the father(hevenly parent)
2. us = his children. then this begs the question...
Would you as a parent give the same set of responsibilities and to an infant versus a 10 tear old, or versus a young adult or an 18 year old? My answer is NO one would not tell an infant about the dangers of driving drunk or to stay morrally clean and keep the law of chastity. that would seem ludicrous right? I hold this view of our father in heaven. As a parent my slef, My (gospel) of rules would be unchanging but introduced to my children at different periods of their lives according to their ability to comprehend and obey.
such is the Lord he does not and will not set us up for failure. but that does not mean he is "changing" does it? It only means he has introduced "higher" laws/commandments as we are ready and able to comprehend and obey. these "higher" commandments carry higher blessings of exhaltation if we but follow them then the Lord is bound to keep his promises to us....
food for thought and I apologize that sometimes my thoughts arent clear when i put them to writing. I just want to hear your take on this. I am interested in you and your searching.
thank you and may god be with you in your travels.
ben Mccumby
Answer
Hi Ben,
I will be happy to answer more of your questions. I will cut and paste each of your particular questions and reply to them in **, Mike
Ben sent: I believe you have a good heart and truly want to help people. I myself have been searching truths.
**Mike replies: Thank you, I could tell right away that you were a sincere searcher as well. Some of my friends call me "the digger" because I will dig for the truth on something far more than most will... sometimes to the annoyance of others.
Ben: My own personal quests thus far have only strengthend my own personal witness in christ.
**Mike: Me too, while my faith has been shaken in churches, and in people... my searching has always strengthened me in Christ, as well as in the Bible and BoM (Book of Mormon) even knowing the imperfections in those books.
Ben: Then you know about Mormon's claims in his own words that he has not written "1/100th of an account" of what exactly was taught... especially when teaching the nephites in 3rd nephi after christs resurrection. then I also assume you must know about the sealed protion of the book of mormon that joseph smith was"commanded" not to translate at the time when he translated the portions we have published today.
**Mike: Correct, as far as I know, only 1/3 of the BoM has been translated to date. The BoM foretells of the lost tribes writing their own books, as well as the sealed portion will be translated at a later date. The BoM prophecies that these events will occur at the beginning of the millenium and will occur "when the Gentiles exercise their faith as the Brother of Jared did" and "will repent and believe in the works they shall already have" (my paraphrasing). As best I can tell, we have not even come remotely close to that state as of yet. Also the BoM says of itself that it contains the "Fullness of the Gospel" in several places, so all key important doctrines for God's church should already exist in what we have today. I believe most of the sealed parts are of things of prophetic nature (which the BoM claims... a prophesy from the beginning to the end). What the BoM does NOT ever prophecy of is a work like the D&C that comes from the Gentiles.
Ben: Think of the D&C (giving the "new and everlasting covanents" e.g. temple marriage, baptism for the dead, etc.) OK here goes my humble attempt.....
**Mike: Actually the Bible already tells us what the "new and everlasting covenant" is... it is the blood of Christ that atones for our sins through baptism by immersion. The Old covenant was through Abraham and was fulfilled by Christ. Now the LDS want us to believe in a different "New and everlasting covenant" that is totally different? A new covenant that is more important than the blood of Christ????
Ben: 1. God = the father(hevenly parent)
2. us = his children. then this begs the question...
Would you as a parent give the same set of responsibilities and to an infant versus a 10 tear old, or versus a young adult or an 18 year old? My answer is NO one would not tell an infant about the dangers of driving drunk or to stay morrally clean and keep the law of chastity. that would seem ludicrous right?
**Mike: I fully agree. In some respects this occured with the Law of Moses... a remedial school for the boneheads who rejected God and worshipped the gold calf. Paul compares the old law to being a "schoolmaster" that the New Testament church was no longer bound by. Once you graduate the remedial school it was time to move on to higher education. The higher education consists of all the teachings of Christ, the Apostles and the BoM (which the Nephites already understood to a significant degree even before Christ visited them). However this concept DOES NOT mean we should run backwards and accept forbidden practices such as the past LDS practice of polygamy which the BoM terms as a whoredom and abomination before God. Sure we should be open to new teachings from God... but we should NOT be open to false teachings that GO AGAINST scripture that are given in the name of God yet God never authored these teachings but rather spoke AGAINST them. Some people go to a higher education by going to college and learn physics, calculus etc., and others go to college and learn fornication and drug abuse. See the difference?
Ben: My (gospel) of rules would be unchanging but introduced to my children at different periods of their lives according to their ability to comprehend and obey.
such is the Lord he does not and will not set us up for failure. but that does not mean he is "changing" does it?
**Mike: I agree with your POV and pointed this out with how the Law of Moses changed into the Law of Christ. Yet the Law of Moses was more of a punishment and a rudimentary preparation for Christ that once He came, it was no longer necessary that they remain in kindergarten. This was not so much of Christ CHANGING the law but FULFILLING it. Instead of animal sacrifices for sin, Jesus offered Himself up as the final infinite atonement, instead of circumsicion we now "circumcise our hearts" by having a meek and humble spirit of a contrite heart. This does not mean God changes, but means God is advancing our education. Yet this does NOT MEAN God is going to send us backwards by telling us to now BREAK His commandments by committing fornication, murdering innocents, and the like.
Ben: It only means he has introduced "higher" laws/commandments as we are ready and able to comprehend and obey. these "higher" commandments carry higher blessings of exhaltation if we but follow them then the Lord is bound to keep his promises to us....
food for thought and I apologize that sometimes my thoughts arent clear when i put them to writing. I just want to hear your take on this. I am interested in you and your searching.
thank you and may god be with you in your travels.
**Mike: I am nervous when I see teachings brought forth that will "exalt man". Jesus states that those who exalt themselves shall be abased. The doctrines of Celestial Marriage teach that man (and his sealed wife) shall be exalted to the highest degree of glory and be "as Gods" eternally procreating spirit children. I am not sure if the LDS still teach this but they certainly used to. Yet the BoM and Bible only teach One Heaven, and one hell (over 50 cites available) and that only God (the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost) are to be exalted and that there will be and always has been only ONE unchangeable God. While I am totally open to new latter day revelation (and the Church of Christ has had many) I am NOT open to any revelation that goes against the teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. There are many colleges out there that teach a higher learning... but sometimes that higher learning is not good learning. Some teach prefectly good math and science etc, and others teach liberal philosophy, God is dead and such that neither I nor you would ever accept. Even Joseph Smith said some revelations are from man, some from God, and some from the devil. The trick is deciphering which is which. Jesus boldly warned us that in the latter day there shall arise many false prophets and false apostles and they SHALL deceive many. That was not an idle warning! The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible on any key doctrine so I fully accept it. Yet the D&C was changed and it contradicts BOTH Bible and BoM many times so I do not accept it as any form of "higher learning". See the difference? Higher learning yes, backwards learning in the name of higher learning no.
I hope this answers your questions, feel free to ask more as much as you wish, I have plenty of time.
God Bless,
Mike
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