AboutTerry Andreasen (Andy) Expertise Safe and Vault related Questions;
Antique Safe Repair and Restoration;
With over 37 years in the Safe & Vault industry, if I can't answer your question I know where to get the answer.
Current Project: Restoration of three, 36 ton steel vault doors and drop floors, in the old Federal Reserve Building, San Francisco.
Experience 37 years in the Safe & Vault Industry. Service Manager for one of the largest Safe & Vault companies on the West Coast. Graduate of Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing, Safe lock Manipulation and Safe Deposit Lock Courses. Graduate of Locksmith Institute.
Certified Instructor for the California Locksmith Association teaching Basic and Advanced Lock Servicing, Basic Safe opening and Repairing.
Factory Trained by AMSEC, LORD Safes, LeFebure, Mosler, KabaMas, LaGard and Sargent & Greenleaf
Organizations SafeCrackers International
Education/Credentials Graduate of Locksmith Institute 1972
Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Servicing 1974
Graduate Lockmasters Safe Lock Manipulation 1975
Graduate Lockmasters Safe Deposit Lock Servicing 1985
Instructor Certified - California Locksmith Association - 1985
Awards and Honors Retired US Army, with many decorations and awards from Vietnam, Desert Storm and Op Iraqi Freedom.
Past/Present Clients Secret Service, FBI, Dept. of Homeland Defense, US Army, US Coast Guard, US Navy, US Marine Corps, Lawerence Livermore National Lab, Bank of America, Wells Fargo Bank, various local banks, credit unions, state agencies, Jewelers, and many commercial and residential customers.
Service Area is Northern California (Fresno to Oregon and Western Nevada)
Question A doctor friend I have recently acquired an HHM safe and was able to open it
until bringing it from Pennsylvania to Texas. With the combo entered the
handle does not turn , door doesn't budge and the dial won't turn: which he
tells me indicates that the combo is correct and the safe is unlocked, thus,
the door must be jammed. I believe the model # is 174832 but the info I
have also provides a second #141001. I mentioned he was a Dr. and I can't
read his writing - the numbers are clear though. It is about 20"wide 20"high
and 24" deep with a dial of 100. He believes coins may be a cause. I have
read your answers to 20 pages on this sight to similar problems and will try to
slide paper around edges of door for lock "parts" still engaged and I am
certain it has not been serviced in a long time. He had a locksmith out and he
is researching now for a month with no follow up so far. Is it unlocked if the
dial does not allow you to turn it? Will lubricating the door and mechanisms
help? I will acquire pics and more info if needed. At the very least I would
like to have your recommendation of a local locksmith to remedy this
situation.
Answer Paul,
Well, first off, I never recommend locksmiths to work on safes. The majority of them (probably around 95%) have little or no training in safes other than changing combinations. They all want to work on safes they just don't want to learn about them. You will need to contact a SAFE Co. in your area to have a safe technician look at your safe. Second, the #'s you have are not "model" numbers. You are possible reading these off of labels which are attached to the safe by SMNA (safe manufactures national Assoc.) or UL.
Next - HHM used many different types of locks over the years (1892-1960's). on the older locks you would bring the dial to a stop at the last number and then turning the handle would either drive the bolt work into the lock, or push the blocking bar up into the lock. Later locks used an internal lever inside the locks to engage the drive wheel and pull the lock bolt out of the way. Not knowing which lock you have and not having the safe here for me to look at I will have to make certain assumptions.
Assumption #1: Based on the info that you have given concerning the "numbers or models" of the safe, I would assume that the safe is a later model (1940's or 1950's). If you have dialed the combination correctly, the lever would have engaged the drive wheel. If the door or contents of the safe shifted during shipping, there may be binding of the bolt work, this binding can be tranmitted back to the lock bolt binding it.
You may want to turn the safe on its back or on the hinge side of the safe to try to relieve this pressure. Pushing on the door may also relieve the pressure.
You didn't mention whether there is "ANY" movement in the door or handle?
Assumption #2: If there is even the slightest movement in the dial and handle then the bolt work is not jammed. Either you have not unlocked the lock correctly or something is jammed against the boltwork on the inside. Tipping the safe or turning it on to its back may cause the item to drop free and allow the bolt work to release.
Assumption #3: We have assumed to this point that you have dialed your combination correctly. The following are the correct dialing procedures for the majority of the locks that HHM used:
HHM safe with Yale or Y&T lock:
4 times right to the first number,
3 times left to the second number,
2 times right to the third number,
1 time left, slowly to stop.
HHM safe with Y&T OB style lock
4 times left to the first number,
3 times right to the second number,
2 times left to the third number,
1 time right to between 0-6 on the dial - STOP. Rock the dial back and forth slightly while attempting to turn the handle to determine the exact spot.
HHM safe with S&G or Eagle locks:
4 times left to the first number,
3 times right to the second number,
2 times left to the third number,
1 time right, slowly to stop
Note: Left is counter clockwise, right is clockwise. Don't count the revolutions of the dial, count the individual number as it arrives at the index mark. On the Y&T, S&G and eagle locks you will feel the lock engage, continue turning the dial another 10-15 numbers or until it physically stops. On the OB style lock you would stop the dial where indicated and turn the handle.
There are only three reasons a lock won't open:
1. Incorrect dialing procedure,
2. Incorrect combination,
3. Mechanical problems,
If the safe still won't open it will be time to call in a trained safe technician. If you are unable to find one, let me know what area that you are in and I'll see who I know or can recommend in your area.
