AboutJames Expertise I am knowledgeable in almost every area of Locksmithing. This includes locks, keys, lost keys, residential and commercial lockouts, rekeying, masterkeying, high security locks, access control, electric locks, security cameras and home safety. I have been running an online business since 2004 where I sell all types of lock and security hardware to everyone from apartment renters to business owners to the US government. Before that I started a locksmith service in 1999. I deal with many types of security equipment including high security safe locks, heavy duty padlocks, exit devices, biometric readers, electric strikes, magnetic locks, full surface hinges and I only sell what I personally stand behind 100%. The online business has given me a more in-depth look at the locksmithing industry, helping me to learn more about each and every product that I offer, as well as products I don't have but end up finding for customers to solve any issues they have with security or door hardware.
Please don't submit any automotive or safe questions as these aren't areas that I can help in.
Experience I have been Locksmithing since 1999 and own my own Locksmithing business. I have many years of hands-on experience through the many services I have performed for my customers. I've run my business the way I wanted, treating everyone as I would like to be treated and knowing that any customer could be my last if I didn't perform my locksmithing duties as I had promised.
Organizations Montana Locksmith Association
Education/Credentials I have a diploma in Masterkeying, Advanced Locksmithing & Locksmithing from Foley-Belsaw.
Past/Present Clients US government, colleges, schools, city and state governments, large and small corporations, home owners.
Question QUESTION: I have a cedar chest that is about 100 years old. It is locked and the key has been misplaced. I want to get into it without destroying it. The lock has a pin that accepts a key with a hole drilled down the center of the shaft. I have obtained a skeleton key and have done some filing and modifications to the key. I have the key to the point where it will turn 360 degrees clockwise and counter clockwise. When it turns you can hear parts in the lock moving. The noises coming from the lock sound like they used to when we unlocked it. However, the lock will not open. Any assistance would be appreciated. John
ANSWER: Hello John,
Congratulations on filing the key to the point of it almost working. Most people don't understand how those locks work and wouldn't have a clue how to do that.
Try contacting a locksmith in your area and see if they have any National D8890 keys. That may or may not work. Otherwise you'll have to hire a locksmith to make a key and not just any locksmith can do it so you'll have to find one that can deal with barrel keys.
James
www.jmlock.com
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QUESTION: James:
I googled National D8890 and saw a picture of the key. That key will never work in this lock. The slot in the key is in the wrong place, and I don't think that the rectangular "flag" at the end of the barrell is large enough. Are there any hints that you could offer for me to try? You can tell that I am close and one more little change might get it for me. Thanks. John
ANSWER: Hello John,
The problem is with barrel keys and the lock they operate is that it's possible that you filed too much.
The best way to file those is with a candle. Sounds weird but here's what you do.
1. Light a candle, standard one.
2. Hold the bit part of the key (the part that goes into the lock) over the flame until the bit is covered in soot from the candle.
3. Insert the key into your lock and turn slowly turn it.
4. Remove the key.
5. Any areas that are no longer covered in soot need filing.
6. Be sure to blow out the candle when done.
The problem in your situation is that since you may have filed too much this method won't work with that key so you'll need to get a new, blank one and start over.
These keys work on wards. Wards are ares in the lock that prevent the key from turning. The filed areas bypass the wards. The areas that aren't filed are used to actuate the lock. If the bit on your key is too short to properly catch the mechanism in the right way, it may sound like it's unlocking but it may just be a bit too short and is only flipping the mechanism instead of turning it.
There are many, many styles of barrel keys many of which may have 1 ward or 3. The bits of the keys vary in thickness, width and height and while some may fit into the lock and almost work, you may need one that's got a slightly larger bit.
James
www.jmlock.com
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QUESTION: Sorry to bother you again, but I have another followup question.
I have already done what you suggest except I am using a magic marker instead of a candle. I have also figured out that I can add metal back on the key using standard electrical solder. The only problem here is that the solder is soft and it will start to wear on the mechanism after it is used 5 to 10 times. The good thing is it files easily.
I think that I have 2 wards - one on the back side that I can see and one of the front side. The one on the front side is present for only about 120 degrees on the circle. You say that there might be 1 ward or 3. Can it not have 2? Can one of the wards be on the front side since I definitely have an obstruction on the front side?
The bit on the key has to be long enough since it is barely gracing the bottom of the hole when the key is inserted. If the bit is longer it would not go into the hole. I have had the same question on the length of the bit and its ability to trip the mechanism. But I do not see how it can be any longer and still go into the hole.
My big question concerns the width of the bit. I have had to file away about a third of the width of the bit at the end to make it turn. Does the bit have to be the entire width of the lock to trip the mechanism? Are there two mechanisms that have to be tripped simultaneously?
Thanks again for the assistance. I will definitely keep you informed. John
Answer Hello John,
A magic marker works. There can be any number of wards and they can be anywhere. If the bit is the same size as the hole then it's likely the right size for the lock. You certainly can't have a key that's larger than the hole that's required to operate the lock.
If the bit isn't long or thick enough it may not catch the trip mechanism the right way which may explain why the key can turn 360 and not unlock it. Most locks like this only have one mechanism.
If solder isn't working, try JB Weld. It will last much longer but is harder to file.
You are at the point that if it doesn't work you'll want to take the whole thing to a locksmith shop that's been in business long enough to know how to make keys for that type of lock and have them open it for you.
