Military History/BAYONETS

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Question
PIC
PIC  

pics
pics  
COULD YOU PLEASE GIVE ME INFORMATION ON THESE. I HAVE HAD THEM FOR 45 YEARS & DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. THANK-YOU FOR YOUR HELP,LARRY.

Answer
Larry:

At first glance, they are all German bayonets of the M1871/84 model and design.  It was one fo the first knife bayonets in the world.  It was made for the M71/84 Mauser service rifle.  I have one like them at home.  You will see later models of the same bayonet, modified without the barrel ring.  This was to prevent barrel damage in the event that the bayonet was used in combat, the thrust force was taken by the wooden stock and not the barrel which might effect accuracy of the rifle.  Considering the facts that when under fire, soldiers will use anything handy to dig with, notice the number of bent civil war bayonets in museums or being sold and traded?  A bayonet on a rifle makes a handy improvised digging tool  Removal of the ring would prevent its use in that manner and corresponding bending of the barrel and its resulting damage to its accuracy rendering it useless.

The Model M71/84 Mauser was used by not only Germany in the late 1800's but also Turkey, Serbia, Korea, and a host of South American countries.

What would allow a bit more definitive explaination would be numbers and markings from them.

If you look at the base of the blade, near the cross guard, there will be words, usually the maker, like:

1934-1937

S/155 - E.u.F. Hörster Waffenfabrik, Solingen
S/172 - Carl Eickhorn Stahlwarenfabrik, Solingen
S/173 – Alexander Coppel GmbH (Alcoso), Solingen
S/174 – WKC/Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie, Solingen
S/175 - F.W.Höller Waffenfabrik, Solingen
S/176 – Paul Weyersberg & Co., Solingen
S/177 - Ernst Pack und Söhne, Solingen
S.178 - Gebr.Heller, Marienthal
S/184 - Josua Corts und Sohn, Remscheid
S/185 - Elite-Diamantwerk, Siegmar-Schönau bei Chemnitz
S.238 - Dürkopp Werke Actiengesellschaft, Bielefeld
S/239 - Rich.Abr. Herder, Solingen
S/240 - Friedrich Herder und Sohn, Solingen
S/241 - Clemen & Jung Waffen und Metallwarenfabrik, Solingen
S/242 - Berg & Co. Solingen-Ohligs
S/244 - Mundlos AG Nähmaschinenfabrik, Magdeburg Nord
S/245 - J.Sch. - Jetter und Scheerer, Tuttlingen

or

1937-1941

Berg & Co.
Clemen & Jung
Coppel G.m.b.H.
Jos. Corts
Dürkopp
Carl Eickhorn
Elite Diamant
Gebr. Heller
F.W. Höller
E.u.F. Hörster
F. Herder
Rich Abr. Herder
Mundlos
E. Pack & Söhne
J.Sch.
P. Weyersberg
W.K.C.
Maschinenhaus Ferlach – Kärnten, Ostmark – was the only manufacturer to use a logo with no name on their blades and scabbards in 1940. (see the attached picture at the bottom of this posting)

1941 - 1945


ab - Mundlos AG, 1941/44
agv - Berg & Co., 1941/mid 1944 then switched to pyy
asw - E.u.F Hörster, 1941/mid 1944 then switched to sgx
bym - Maschinenhaus Ferlach, 1941/45
can - Aug. Wallmeyer, Eisenach-Thüringen 1944 replacement scabbards only
clc - Richard Abr. Herder, 1941/44
cof - Carl Eickhorn, 1940/45
cqh - Clemen & Jung, 1941/44
crs - Paul Weyersberg & Co., 1940/45
cul - Ernst Pack & Söhne, 1940/44
cvl - WKC, 1940/45
ddl - Josua Corts, 1941/44
ffc - Friedrich Abr. Herder und Söhne, 1941/44
fnj - Alexander Coppel Gmbh, 1941/44
fze - F.W. Höller, 1941/44
i - Elite Diamant, 1941 only
jwh - Staatliche Waffenfabrik, Chatellerault, France 1941/44
pyy - Berg & Co., late 1944 only
sgx - E.u.F Hörster, 1944/45


Now, there might also be marks on the edge of the blade, the unsharpened rectangular stub just before the blade starts where it emerges from the cross guard. Either at the upper or lower part of teh blade.  Sometimes it is a crown or other mark depending on the age.

Now having said all that, it is probably not a German blade, since they dropped the ring for the reasons stated above. The turks did not, using this model for a logn time.  They called it the M1935.  Looke for an AS.FA on the blade is an abbreviation for Askari Fabrika (military factory).

Spain used them as well.

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Spain/spain_2.html

Venezuela also used them and they were made in Belgium.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13510414_venezuelan-bayonet-for-m187184-maus

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/bayonet_identification_gui


Try matching some of the blade marks on yours with some of the pictures to identify the country or origin.  

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