Non-Denominational/Speaking in Tongues
QUESTION: hai Brother,
I have read your comments about that issue above... and I think you've missed one part of it specially when it comes to understanding the scriptures.... I will just say this ,in your text you left out what would remain when the gifts of the spirit does finally are gone,I think its a reveling clue as to when they are gone,it says this:
(1 Corinthians 13:13) 13 Now, however, there remain faith, hope. . .
and now there doth remain faith, hope,
■according to this verse after the gifts are gone faith and hope would remain. I know it never dawned on you how you could be in heaven with Jesus and still have faith and hope but the scriptures define what faith and hope is:
(Hebrews 11:1) . . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
■I know that you still dont see my point so I will explain.
If you are in heaven with Jesus ,in what was does that harmonize with the gifts ending and faith and hope remaining since faith is looking for things not yet seen,same with hope,a person hope to one day go to heaven.
Paul explain by examples what faith is:
(Hebrews 11:3) . . .By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by Godís word, so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear.
(Hebrews 11:7) 7 By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark . . .
(Hebrews 11:8) . . .By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed in going out into a place he was destined to receive as an inheritance; and he went out, although not knowing where he was going. . .
(Hebrews 11:13) . . .In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off. . .
So faith is looking to the future and expecting the fulfillment one day.
Being in heaven with Jesus would be a fulfillment,how does faith and hope remain???????
Hope that you keep an open mind Brother.
ALL THE BEST
ANSWER: Dear Dave,
Thank you for the kindness in your question and exposition! May HE be blessed as HE uses "iron to sharpen iron!)
I appreciate your perspective but please consider the verses just prior to the one that you quote from in 1Cor 13.
1Co 13:9 "For we know in part and we prophesy in part;10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away."
Notice Paul's emphatic in verse 9; "For (now) we know in part and (now) we prophesy in part. When the perfect comes (in the future), the partial (now) will be done away." (parenthesis;mine)
You and I live in the (now). We both are looking for "the perfect" to come. In the meantime, HIS Gifts are still functioning. Some qualify "the perfect" as the compiling of The Scriptures. However, according to those very Scriptures, there is only ONE who is perfect; Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." Please consider this comparison between these two verses (one just prior to those which you quoted;
1Co 13:12 For NOW we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; NOW I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, NOW we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
And then the verse that you quoted;
1Co 13:13 "But NOW faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love."
You and I are still in the "now", but we will someday see HIM (WHO is perfect) as HE is! Then there will be no need for "faith" for we will see HIM face to face!
May you continue in your studies and be blessed by the TRUTH which is MESSIAH!
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thank You for your kind words Bro. :-)
But please allow me to correct something from your response.
here's the first thing... would you agree with me that we are now LIVING in the "LAST DAYS" or "END TIMES"? Well, I'm sure you would! :-) And since we are now living in the end times... then probably DANIEL 12:4 had its fulfillment already:
ďAnd as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.Ē
■■So to get a clearer answer to how long the 'gift of tongues' would continue and then ceases...then we need to harmonize the context so we need to take a look at (1 Corinthians 13:8) to know when will it cease and also WHAT are THOSE to be CEASE:
(1 Corinthians 13:8)
Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.
■■Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be "imperfect," "in part," or partial. That is said of "prophecy" and "knowledge." In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God's purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God's purpose would be accomplished, then "that which is perfect," or complete, would come. Now since where in the end times...then "KNOWLEDGE" had become abundant already right??? So then the gifts of spirit were already done away with!!!! in fact,(as I may correct you) the word "perfect" is translated from the [Greek word: te'lei●on] which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. So complete or perfect has to come before it will be done away with.
■■A better translation of the G.K. here is "complete" not of that "PERFECTNESS" quality of God, and angels, :-)
(1 Corinthians 13:10) 10 but when that which is complete arrives, .
But when the Complete arrives
10 But when the complete and perfect (total) comes,
■■So has the complete come? is this Jesus coming?
He(Paul) gives a distinction between partial or incomplete ,between a child and a full grown man,so what is he taking about???
(1 Corinthians 13:9) (KJV)
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially
9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy;
■■So the thought is whatever was done it was not with full knowledge but as a babe would do not having full understanding. The gifts of knowledge and prophecy were incomplete. Apparently, such prophecy did not go into detail(back then), and each prophet was partial in disclosing the future, lacking perfect knowledge about what he foretold. NOW, as in right NOW, however, the understanding of prophecy is COMPLETE as well as we has the complete word of God which then was partial, NOW, we have the OLD TESTAMENT and NEW TESTAMENT(Scriptures) where back then.. they only had the OLD TESTAMENT... So since there's no need for making another new TESTAMENT again for another NEW "END TIMES", then the gifts of spirit(as i said) were already done away with... as PAUL said it would...
Similarly Pentecost was the infancy of Christianity but now the truth is firmly established and full grown.
It cant be Jesus coming for a rapture(to see him face to face) as the perfect or complete... since it says:
(1 Corinthians 13:13) 13 Now, however, there remain faith, hope,
■■These were left after the gifts were gone.
■■If its Jesus how would hope remain since your hope would be realized and faith is expecting something and being assured it will happen????????
Continue to keep an open mind Brother
ALL THE BEST
The possibility, indications and occurrences that seem to suggest that we are in the "last days" are not the confirmation of it. Those who we read about IN the Scriptures also believed that they were in the last days. There is only one who is perfect. HE hasn't come back yet. That which is in part has not been done away with...yet.