Non-Denominational/Whore of Babylon

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Question
In the "Christendom" there are 2 major trains of thought as to who/what the Whore of Babylon(WOB) is; the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) or the United States of America(USA)
I'm sure you are familiar with the bible chapters and verses that people use to draw their conclusions that the WOB is either the RCC or the USA. Rev 17 and 18 mostly.
But the Lord led my to this verse in Isaiah that enlightened me to the real scope of who/what the WOB is
And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans' pride, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. -Isaiah 13:19

From this Scripture we see that
Babylon = glory of Kingdoms
Babylon = the beauty of the Chaldeans' pride(or the beauty of the pride of the people of Bablyon basically)

I have always thought if the RCC is the WOB then all the rebellious denominations and sects that sprange out from her are her harlot daughters. I've also always thought if the USA is the WOB then all the nations that in one way controlled, influenced, or westernized by their money and culture are her harlot daughters.

Isaiah 13:19 put things in prespective for me. Bablyon is every kingdom - be it nation, government, business, church or any other religious group, and organization of any kind that has built (nimrod) its only glory in the world independent of God. Babylon is also all the people who take pride in what they have built.

So looks to me that the WOB is the whole freaking world more or less, with the except of a few places and people where the Lord's remenant are.

Now I realized something about some prophecies in rev 18 that have made me to believe that though Bablyon and her harlot daughters cover the whole world, and the Lord will judge ever place and person where the spirit of the WOB is in control, there is 1 prime place of her power and control that the Lord will judge in some the specific terms mentioned in rev 18. Even though Babylon is everywhere  there will be one particular place where this will be said when her judgement comes:
1. And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning. They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say,
“Alas! Alas! You great city,
you mighty city, Babylon!
For in a single hour your judgment has come.” Rev 18:9-10

2. The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
“Alas, alas, for the great city
that was clothed in fine linen,
in purple and scarlet,
adorned with gold,
with jewels, and with pearls!
For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” Rev 18:15-17

3. And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off 18and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning,
“What city was like the great city?”
And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out,
“Alas, alas, for the great city
where all who had ships at sea
grew rich by her wealth!
For in a single hour she has been laid waste.
Rejoice over her, O heaven,
and you saints and apostles and prophets,
for God has given judgment for you against her!” - Rev 18:17-20

For these prophecies to be fulfilled, certain kings(world/nation leaders), merchants (traders?), "shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea" will have too behold a specific focal place of the WOB being judged by God and utter what has been written. In this case the USA or the RCC look to be top candidates for me, but I lean more towards the USA becuase of their political and military power (kings shouting at their destruction) and their financial and economic power as well (merchants and sea people who get rich off of them shouting at their destruction)

I'd love to know your thoughts on this view I have of the what/who/where of the WOB and the focal place of her power and destruction. Thanks

Answer
Hi PK,

You asked about the "whore of Babylon."

1. Many, especially among the Protestant churches, have long believed that the RCC is the great whore described in Rev. 17:1, 19:2.  Interestingly, the RCC teaches that the book of Revelation is not to be taken literally, but is a metaphor for the battle between good (the RCC) and evil.  This is in accordance with the RCC teaching that the only valid Bibles are the Catholic versions, which they have traditionally discouraged lay people from reading, but which, in any case, are to be interpreted only by (in descending order) 1) the current Pope, 2) previous Popes or leaders, 3) RCC "church traditions."  

That spiritual understanding comes only through another human priesthood, contradicts Christ's promise that understanding of "all truth" would come through the holy spirit of God, which would dwell in us.

The Protestant churches, overall, stopped calling the RCC, the "great whore," at about the same time that the RCC stopped proclaiming the hypocrisy of Protestants for claiming "sola scriptura" (the Bible alone) while still observing a Sunday sabbath.  

In 1893, a series of articles published in the Catholic Mirror, the official organ for Cardinal Gibbons and the Papacy in the United States, used the Bible to correctly refute the Sunday-keeping arguments of Protestants, and declared that there is no Biblical basis for Sunday observance other than the authority of Rome.  Catholic leaders, representing Rome, were publicly calling all Protestants "hypocrites" for rejecting Rome's authority while observing Rome's Sabbath (Sunday).  

Their solution to the Protestant hypocrisy was for Protestants to either acknowledge Rome's spiritual authority, or to start observing the seventh-day Sabbath.   Some Catholic leaders and authors continued to publicly proclaim this until, at least, 1969.  It was never withdrawn or renounced, but they ceased from making public statements about it.  Likewise, Protestants, overall, have refrained from calling the RCC, the "great whore," but they have never said that it is not true.

Historical accounts show that, originally, many churches outside of Rome kept the seventh-day Sabbath, but as Rome gained power, that observance was prohibited by the authority of the Roman pontiff.

This information has been widely published, mainly by the Seventh Day Adventists, but also by others.  [*Links to these web sites should not be taken as endorsement of any other materials that may be found there.]

 a. Historians and church authorities on the origin of Sunday "sacredness"
         *[offsite] http://www.seventh-day.org/historians.htm
         [offsite] http://www.biblesabbath.org/confessions.html
         [offsite] http://www.sabbathtosundaychange.com/
         [offsite] http://www.sa-hebroots.com/protestant_admissions.php
c. Catholics ask, Why do Protestants worship on Sunday?
         *[offsite] http://www.seventh-day.org/romes%20challenge.htm
         [offsite] http://www.seventh-day.org/letterrome.htm
         [offsite] http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/catholics-challenge-protestants-on-sunday-wor
                                     [offsite] http://www.cbcg.org/romes_challenge1.htm
d. The Catholic Encyclopedia regarding the basis of Sunday worship
         *[offsite] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm
         [offsite] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm

The point here is that the mutual name calling of "whore" and "hypocrite" ceased by an apparently mutual understanding and due to the inability of either to disprove the mutual epithets.  Since the name-calling has ceased, Catholics are now using the same Protestant arguments to defend Sunday observance that they previously disproved by using the Bible.

The RCC really isn't a single organization, but an association of organizations that pretend to be unified in some spiritual way.  For a detailed description of the RCC as the mother of many "churches" (harlots?) see: "The Current State of Christianity" at:

http://thechurchofgodinamerica.com/B101.A.2.The%20current%20state%20of%20Christi

For a discussion of the details of the "city on seven hills", see sidebar article at:

http://thechurchofgodinamerica.com/B101%20course%20introduction,%201.%20Why%20sh

Some feel that the "great whore" applies to all the world's organized religions, and in a limited sense, it might.  However, there is only one organization that has always, and still does (based on historical facts), fit the description given in scripture -- an organization that has directly spawned many offspring, a "city" (not a nation) that has held power over many nations, that was currently ("is") holding power over many nations when John wrote Revelation, that has killed many followers of Christ in the name of "the Lord", the only city that has repeatedly held control, or shared control over a world empire six times.  Only one city has been known as "the city of seven hills" since its founding, over 2,764 years ago.  Only one city has held the status of an independent "nation/state".  Only one organization proclaims itself the mother of all other Christian churches.  
This is not opinion, but history.

[Please note that we are simply reporting historical accounts, details and information.  It is not our purpose to judge anyone's faith, or any individual.  We did not originate this material.  It is easily available from various sources, including Catholic web sites.  We have had more than a few friends and co-workers who were Catholics and some who were ex-Catholics.  Most of the lay members appear to be unaware of the full history of their organization and its doctrinal development, which is typical of many religious organizations.]

2. The "great whore" and "Babylon" are closely related, but are not the same thing.  The whore is a city that sits on seven hills.  Babylon was founded, and still sits, on flat land along the Tigris River in (modern) Iraq.
As you correctly pointed out, prophetic Babylon is associated with business and international trade (Rev. 18).  Babylon's future, sudden downfall causes all the "kings [rulers] of the earth, all the businessmen [international traders], and "all the shipmasters and sailors" [commercial shippers, sea, land and air] to "mourn".  This describes a point at which all the world's economic activity ceases at once, partially because it is all being (at that time) controlled through one city, which is "suddenly" destroyed.

New York has been the obvious choice since WWII although many fundamentalists believed it would be a European city.  If the EU has it's way, it will be Luxemburg in Belgium.  

Constantinople (modern Istanbul) (the "second Rome" of Emperor Constantine) would be a logical choice.  It was the seat of his edition of the Holy Roman Empire for over 1,100 years.  It is still the HQ for the Eastern Orthodox Church (Catholics who won't acknowledge primacy of Rome, but are otherwise Catholic).  It is in a predominately Muslim country.  It was the capital of the (Muslim) Ottoman Empire for four centuries.  It is an associate member of the EU.  Although primarily a Muslim nation, it is ruled by a secular government. Although in the EU, it is not considered part of Europe.  The Eastern Orthodox has not had the sex scandals that have flourished in the Roman church.

The concept of a single world government has been around for a long time, some say since ancient Greece, but scriptures show that it originated in the Babylon of Nimrod, when the post-flood population disobeyed God and built a socialist "village."

[Ref. article "World Government" at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_government ]

The history of the EU has shown how national interests interfere with attempts at full globalization.  To overcome national interests will require that the alternative to a global government be painful and/or disastrous.  We may be headed toward that choice now, with the current world economic decline.  China is trying to replace the US dollar with the yuan as the international base currency for trading.  China and Brazil have agreed to trade only in their own currencies, and Australia may soon follow suit.

Ref. http://www.ibtimes.com/so-long-yankees-china-brazil-ditch-us-dollar-trade-deal-b

""We are creating new axis of global development,” Anand Sharma, India's Minister of Commerce, Industry and Textiles, Xinhua reported. “The global economic order created several decades ago is now undergoing change and we believe for the better to make it more representative.”

Interesting that he uses the term axis.

3. The whore is a religious organization that has relations with all the nations of the world.  Currently this is problematic since Islam is the chief or sole religion in more than a few countries and Christianity is split between Catholic and Protestant.  The whore is spoken of as a single entity, having harlot daughters.  For the world's chief religions to come together in a union would seem to be more impossible than the political union.  However, in the tradition of hypocrisy, an association in name only might be acceptable to religious leaders, especially if it were directly linked to economic trading.  The "beast" power will control all buying and selling and corporate churches are dependent on money, so it would be a natural whore/client relationship. The masses who are superstitious, will be easily influenced by the miracles described in Rev.13:12-18.

4. At first the political union of ten nations ("the beast" that controls all trading, Rev. 13:17-18) and the whore are politically "in bed together", but at some point the "beast" turns on the whore and destroys her politically, economically, and perhaps even physically (Rev. 17:16).  The beast also refers to the seventh (historical) king that rules over a future world empire (Rev. 17:10) for a short time (13:5).

Setting dates is a foolish act.  However, in observing current and developing world events, as we are instructed to do (Lk. 21:36 ), it appears that most or all of the events concerning the end of the world as we know it could come to pass as early as 2019, perhaps even sooner.

Christ said that the majority of the world will be in denial when the end comes (Mat. 24:36-39).  While no one knows the day or hour, we are told of specific things to watch for (Mat. 24:15, Lk. 21:20).

"Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Lk. 21:36.


We do not normally engage in discussions involving speculation, but stick to simply answering questions asked, providing reference to specific scriptures.  Your question was not directed to us but we recently saw it in the question pool, where anyone is allowed to respond.  Your description, "So it looks to me that the WOB is the whole freaking world more or less, with the exception of a few places and people where the Lord's remnant are." made us laugh.

"Freaking" is an apt description of the state of the world, and of world "christianity".

We wish you the best and pray that our Father will lead you into all truth,

Sincerely,

Mel and Guyna

Non-Denominational

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