Orthodox Judaism/atonement and redemption
QUESTION: This is a very biog problem with a lot of people that we do no moe sacafrice because we have no Temple, how do we get forgiven is ask a billion times, they ask if you break the big 10 we our lost, there is no way back by yourself.how do they see passover as a time for spiritual salvation. please help.
ANSWER: Hi Frank,
We use prayer instead of sacrifice and are forgiven if we repent in addition to sincere prayer. There is always a way back, even for the big 10 :-)
Not sure what you mean by "how do they see passover as a time for spiritual salvation".
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QUESTION: most people see Passover is a Spirtual salvation, this is how they tie Yeshua is dying during Passover,please explain why the Lamb was used I read in commentaries that is was for to show EYPGT used as a god, it was to show they would not use it . Is this true? You see IO left the Messianic group now to them I turn from G-d and I am lost, this is why this issue is so real to me.
ANSWER: Hi Frank,
Please rephrase "that is was for to show EYPGT used as a god, it was to show they would not use it". I am not sure what you mean exactly.
There was an aspect of the lamb being a god for the Egyptian and being prepared by the Jews for sacrifice which bothered the Egyptians tremendously but they were unable to do anything about it. This cannot however be said as the only reason for the lamb.
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QUESTION: IAM REALLY SORRY ABOUT MY WRITING, LET ME START OVER, WAS THE LAMB USED BECAUSE IT WAS A GOD FOR THEM? THE PASSOVER WAS NOT FOR ATONEMENT WAS IT? FOR ME TO GET GROUNDED IN JUDAISM I SHOULD STAY WITH TORAH AND SEARCHING ALL THE OTHER BOOKS SHOULD I? RABBI TOVIA SINGER TOLD ME I WILL GET TO CONFUSED IS THAT GOOD ADVICE? IF I REALLY DON'T LIVE IN A JEWISH COMMUNITY KOSHER MEAT IS TO HARD, TO DRIVE TO SHUL IS TO FAR, HELP ME IN THIS AREA. MY HEART SAYS I WANT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT, SOME TIMES I FELT LIKE TROWING MY HANDS UP AND GIVE UP, MY ENTER SOUL SAY DON'T JUST KEEP WORKING AT MY OWN SPEED, PLEASE ALL HELP WILL BE GREATLY BE RECIEVED.
I am beginning to understand where you are coming from with this question. Please forgive me for not catching on earlier and for missing your subtle points in the future.
The lamb was not really an atonement but rather a transition. The Jews were commanded to abandon all aspects of idol worship. They were commanded to take the idol of Egypt, slaughter it and eat it which was an utter abomination in the eyes of the Egyptians. With this act they started serving G-d by following His commandments. They accepted upon themselves the responsibility of keeping G-d's laws and the consequences of failure. G-d wanted to take them out of Egypt but they lacked merits to be redeemed. By fulfilling this command they showed they are able to follow G-d's commandments and merited to be redeemed. Another purpose of this command was the utter reliance on G-d rather than natural forces. In the month of Nisan the constellation of Tle (Aries, not ram but lamb) is powerful, yet the Jews ate the lamb to show they rely on G-d alone. Slaughtering and eating the idol of Egypt also served to give rise to the national identity of the Jews as a people who follow G-d's commandments and a force to be reckoned with. With this Mitzvah, the Jews merited that G-d's presence (the Shechina) would dwell amongst them.
The idea of someone dying for other's spiritual salvation is a very foreign concept in Judaism. Why did Moses not die before leaving Egypt in order to bring salvation to the Jews so they could be redeemed from Egypt? I find it disturbing to even contemplate such a horrible thing. Although death is a salvation and sometimes necessary for salvation, it is never a prerequisite for salvation. For us there is only our Torah and Its commandments and our entire salvation, spiritual or physical, depends on fulfilling our obligation to G-d. I would go even further and say that we do not aim for salvation when fulfilling the commandments, we don't aim for anything but to serve G-d, the benefits are what they are and we appreciate them but our resolve does not depend on them. How else does a nation survive 2000 years of Diaspora, rejection and persecution? There is a story of the Gaon of Vilna. One year he had trouble finding an esrog for Succoth. Finally a Jew was found who had an esrog but he was willing to part with it only if the Gaon agreed to pay him with all the spiritual rewards in Olam Haba the Gaon would have gotten from the Mitzvah. The Gaon readily agreed. The Gaon was very happy to be able to do a Mitzvah for its own sake, without any reward.
G-d does not come to the Jews saying "I want to save you but someone has to die first". G-d says, follow my Torah and my commandments. Since we are human and we fail, sometimes it is necessary that people die unfortunately before our relationship with G-d can continue. Sometimes even righteous people die for salvation as we see in the case of the 10 Rabbis murdered by the Roman government. We mourn them until this very day, we view it as a terrible event. We wish we could have done something to prevent it. Even the angels could not understand how G-d allowed such a murder. We accept G-d's terrible decree with love but we do not say that it was somehow obvious that the righteous have to die before we can get close to G-d, we don't consider it a support or replacement to fulfilling the commandments of the Torah.