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Pentecostals/UPCI False Claim on Methodist Charismatics


I am a United Methodist that received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues under a UPCI minister and was also baptized in Jesus' name by one.  I attended UPCI churches for a brief period before coming into the Methodist Church.

While in the UPCI, I went to the Steadfast Conference, sponsored by Indiana Bible College (IBC) and Calvary Tabernacle, Indy, IN (both are UPCI).  One of the ministers made a claim about Charismatic Methodists that I believe is false now.  The claim was:

200 United Methodist pastors accepted the "Apostolic message" [in quotes emphasis mine] and wanted to be a part of this.  Do not do anything to this.

-I asked the minister that made the claim to give me some names of these ministers that changed from United Methodist to UPCI - the response, he could not mention not [1] single name of a United Methodist that transfered his ordination from Uunited Methodist to UPCI (Apostolic movement).
-This means when the UPCI minister claimed that they accepted the "Apostolic message" and wanted to be a part of this, > it meant accept the mainstream "Apostolic" doctrine that means repentance is required, water baptism in Jesus' name required, the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues required, and the standards of holiness was required.

I extensively studied the Charismatic Movement in the United Methodist Church, and I have contacted/visited a number of United Methodist Churches that are charismatic in nature with seasoned pastors who have spoken in tongues for many years.  Not one of them, who spoke in tongues, wants to transfer to the UPCI for the following reasons:

-1. They disagree with the strict dress code and strict legalism, especially for salvation.
-2. They disagree about speaking in tongues being rrequired to become a Christian
-3.  They disagree about water baptism being essential for salvation, especially "rebaptisms" in Jesus' Name

I asked them about conversion:

-Non-Charismatic Methodist Churches do Romans 10:13 for conversion - For whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.  The moment you believe and call on the name of the Lord, with just the faith statement, the conversion occurs, you are saved.  Meaning: without speaking in tongues, without water baptism, without works, without legalism, without the dress code.

-Every single Charismatic Methodist pastor I spoke with and who also spoke in tongues answered just like the Non-Charismatic Methodist pastors that do not speak in tongues.  

One Spirit-filled Methodist pastor that has been speaking in tongues for Over 32-years and pastoring for Over 32-years said, when I asked him: "When it comes to conversion, do you do Romans 10:13 - the moment when you call on the name of the Lord with just the faith statement, without tongues, legalism, without baptism, without works, do you believe is when the conversion occurs? > the answer was YES

I asked about altar calls because members said he gives [2] altar calls, one for the "Holy Ghost and tongues" and another altar call for salvation.  The Methodist pastor said, I did not do that everytime.  I did not give the one for the "Holy Ghost and tongues" every time.  I gave one for salvation almost every time.  And that same Methodist pastor that spoke in tongues for over 32-years said, that is exactly what the Bible says: For whosoever will call on the name of the Lord shall be saved - meaning to call on the name of the Lord, for conversion, with just the faith statement, without/tongues, rules, legalism, standars, water baptism, and works being required.  He made all that clear.

I mentioned some Methodist pastors that spoke in tongues for years because - UPCI (Apostolic Movement) ministers teach that once you speak in tongues, "leading into all truth", means that you must believe and preach that everyone "has to" speak in tongues, get [re]baptized in Jesus' name, repent [work, keep track], and comply to all the standards/dress code to be saved.

Please know the facts before making claims about charismatics, inparticularly United Methodist Charismatics.

What do you have to say about all this?

I don't doubt your word at all, brother.  I can't begin to account for some of the things said in Pentecostal pulpits, in the name of trying to sound persuasive.  It makes me sad that there are reports out there like this and I'm sure it must break the heart of God if and when these things happen.

Because I was raised in the Assemblies of God and later was baptized in Jesus Name, I was not indoctrinated with the "do this or else" teaching that can be so destructive.  I am a huge proponent of balance and learned a long time ago that extremes are dysfunctional.  

While I attend a United Pentecostal Church, I don't contend for some of the "culture" that gets passed off as completely normative of the early church.  It's always tragic when our limited human and subcultural understandings get in the way of comprehending truth or loving other Christian people.  I learned to dump the bath water while never letting go of the baby!

I apologize for my delayed response but I was selling my house, packing, moving, hosting family for the holidays and now helping to relocate family to FL.  

I welcome your response.  God bless you.



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Robert L. Morgan


I was raised as a 4th generation Pentecostal in an ordained Assemblies of God minister's home and educated for the ministry at an A/G Bible College. I transitioned into the United Pentecostal Church International and also attended one of their Bible Colleges. I have a balanced understanding of the Oneness/Trinity debate, water baptism in the Name of Jesus, grace versus legalism, the new birth, the differences between Charismatic, Apostolic, and Pentecostal, worship, church history and the evolution of Christian theology. I have also personally confronted the issue of same gender attraction often found among classical Pentecostals.


I have a deep passion for doctrine and history which I invested myself into heavily while pursuing my education. My entire life has been spent finding Scriptural balance with help provided by exposure to reputable ministries from across the spectrum of the modern Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.

Presently, I am the General Chairman and co-founder of the Global Alliance of Affimring Apostolic Pentecostals, an "affirming" organization dedicated to sharing truth as it is understood by Pentecostals with all people, including but not limited to gay people in their pursuit of God's fullness in their often challenging lives. I attend a multicultural United Pentecostal Church in Tampa, FL.

The Pentecostal Herald. I was also one of the featured subjects of an article written for Charisma Magazine in 2000 regarding the issue of Homosexuality and Christianity.

I graduated in 1983 from Southeastern University in Lakeland, FL (Assemblies of God) with a Bachelors degree in Theology and Pastoral Ministry. I also attended JacksonCollege of Ministries in Jackson, MS where I studied organ, piano and vocal music. I attended A/G churches all my life until 1985 when I fully transitioned in the United Pentecostal Church International. I held a General License with the UPC for several years before resigning to confront personal issues with which I was struggling.

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