Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 8/11/2007

Question
QUESTION: Hi. I have been reading a lot lately on websites ran by various denominations, and have carefully compared what they say to multiple translations of the bible, and to me it seems clear that "hell" as taught by many "mainstream" denominations, does not exist. The first problem is that four words with three different meanings: Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna are all translated "hell" in the King James version. On top of that, a lot of the current views on hell originated with pagan practices and some of the teachings of Plato. Hell was and is used by many church leaders as a "scare tactic" to get people to go to church. But Jesus said we should follow the bible for love of God, not fear of what he will do to us if we don't. I don't understand why so many people could believe that a loving God could be such a monster and torture people forever and ever in horrifying agony, completely ignoring their screams. The bible teaches forgiveness. And how would the saved feel in the afterlife knowing many of their loved ones are being tortured in horrifying agony and will continue to be tortured "forever and ever"? I just don't understand how so many "mainstream" Christians can believe that God is such a monster that he would torture people in horrifying agony "forever and ever" and ignore their screams. The bible teaches that the wage of sin is DEATH, and that the gift of Christ is eternal life, but if hell is eternal, wouldn't that count as "eternal life"? The bible teaches that starting with Adam, all sinners that aren't saved return to the dust they came from and become ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous. Many scholars say that if people read the American Standard Version of the bible without any preconceived thoughts they had been taught, they would never reach the conclusion that this horrifying place called "hell" exist where God sends people to be tortured. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are? I'm not trying to criticise you, I'm just trying to understand why so many people believe this pagan teaching of a sinister God that would do this to people. After all, Satan deceived Eve by telling her she wouldn't die for sinning, so by saying sinners live forever in hell, it kind of seems like you're agreeing with Satan :(

ANSWER: Hi Josh,

Thank you for this thought proviking question.

I do not use any of the modern translations because I believe that they come from a corrupted source in the first place.  Even with that said, if you believe all of the Bible, you have to believe in a litteral Hell with litteral flames, even if it is an unpleasant thought.  I looked at the New American Standard version.  They do translate Hell as hades, but look at what Jesus daid happened:

16:22   "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.  
Luk 16:23   "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.  
Luk 16:24   "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'  
Luk 16:25   "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.  
Luk 16:26   'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and {that} none may cross over from there to us.'  
Luk 16:27   "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--  
Luk 16:28   for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'  
Luk 16:29   "But Abraham *said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'  
Luk 16:30   "But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!'  
Luk 16:31   "But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.' "  


Even in an inferior translation like the NASB, it is clear that Jesus taught that Hell had a litteral flame and that there was torment going on.

As far as the wages of sin being death, God's word tells us that the second death is the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

It is a dangerous thing to evaluate whether a doctrine is correct based upon how just we think it is in our own hearts.  

Jeremiah 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

If you believe the whole Bible, and you do not believe that Jesus was lying in Luke 16, then it is very difficult not to believe in a litteral hell.

I hope that this helps.

In Christ
Pastor Don

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for your reply. But I would point out that the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. If it were to be taken literal, Abraham would have a pretty large bosom. I think many people have been taught that the pitchfork flaming hell is real so they think thats what the bible says. But I don't find it anywhere. The wicked will be destroyed in the lake of fire just as the great flood before. Are the people killed in the great flood still drowning today? Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? God destroys wicked people and wicked cities. He doesn't torture them forever and ever that I can see. I just honestly don't see how God could be such a merciless, sinister monster. The bible teaches that God is loving and forgiving.

Answer
Hi Josh,

Thanks for this follow up question.  In order for us to truly understand just how loving and forgiving GOd is, we must understand that He is also just and must punish sin.  That is why Jesus had to die on the cross, to pay for sin.  Anyone who believes in that payment can escape Hell, but anyone who does not must pay for sin themselves.

John 3:16-20
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Now as to eternal punishment, we read about the fact of eternal punishment in Revelation.  Notice that it is not just the smoke that is forever, but the smoke of their torment, and that they have no rest day or night.

Revelation 14:10-11
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

By the way, Luke 16 is not a Parable, but Abrahams boosom is a figure of speech.... a metaphore.  Even if it were a parable, Jesus never told a story that could not have happened.... He is Holy and He is not a liar!

I hope that this helps you.

In Christ,
Pastor Don