Expert: Sandra Todd - 11/1/2009

Question
QUESTION:
Hello,
One of my pet rats, Sammy, has a tumor. It is about the size of a golf ball and he has had it for almost a year. I want to get it removed, but my parents said we shouldn't because it is not cancerous. They are just guessing that it is not cancerous. It is soft and has grown a lot ever since he got it. It is underneath his left arm and hangs down. Does Sammy’s tumor need to be removed? He is 2.5 years old now. My mom says he might not survive the surgery. My dad says the tumor does not cause him any pain. However, his tumor is turning pink, is a little scratched, and drags on the ground when he walks. My mom says his tumor does not look that bad compared to the pictures she saw on the critter city website. She is right that his does not look as bad as the photos of rats with tumors on that website, but I am still worried about Sammy’s tumor. We took our other pet rat Tony to the vet last week because he had a swollen foot. While the vet examined him, she noticed that he has a small lump under his arm, too. He is also 2.5 years old. What do you think? Also, do you know of any vets in the Orange County area that are knowledgeable in pet rats besides Westminster Veterinary Group? My mom called there and was told it would cost about $400 for the office visit and tumor removal and thinks it is too expensive. I like the vet that we take our dog to, but I am not sure she is that knowledgeable in rats. She said she thought Tony got his foot caught in the cage, and licked it so it got swollen. I think he had bumble foot though because I saw a picture on your website (critter city) that looked exactly like his foot. The medications she prescribed did help and his foot looks good again.


ANSWER: To be honest, I do not think it is cancerous (they rarely are) and if he has had this for a year without losing weight etc....thats a great sign it is not invasive. This makes surgery easier due to less blood loss and less time under anesthesia.

However, he is getting up there in age.  Its a hard decision to really make here when it comes to this at his age, esp if he is stable like he is.  

As for vets, you dont want a vet that is not up to par on rat care. This is the easiest ways to kill a rat, by going to a vet that is clueless.  Because you did research and knew that Tony had an infection rather than getting it caught (not sure what she thought licking his foot would make it swell, but thats a bit of an odd statement) he could had gotten really sick without medication, so in reality, you diagnosed your rat by using my site and saved his life.  This makes it worth every second I put into Critter City and also here, to make a difference in rat care and to help educate rat owners, just like yourself.  Good job!!!!!

Anyhow, me? I would get the opinion of a good vet.  I LOVE the Vets at the Westminster group and am shocked its so pricey.  I will check around for someone comparable to their expertise.

Obviously you read about tumors and know how they can eventually claim their life benign or malignant. Males dont seem to have a problem with them like females due to hormone levels that soar after ratty menopause starts.  
What you can do is ease the friction on the tumor and the cage floor by padding it. Remove all litter or bedding and put down fleece or something that doesnt fray.  If the cage floor is plastic, even this is better than having litter and bedding rub it.  Put the litter in a shoebox and let him use it as a litter box. This is the easiest thing to do (litter train rats) I can count the rat owners that I know on one hand that has their rats using a litter pan yet its a cinch!

Also, rub it with some antibiotic ointment if it starts to look a little rough.  



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Sandra,
Thank you very much for your last answer. We have padded Sammy's cage and are going to give him a litter box. We took Sammy to our dogs vet for a checkup and asked about surgery. They told us that Sammy was underweight and felt bony. We can tell he is not as chubby as Tony is. She said that Sammy has a skin infection because his skin is orange, flaky, and greasy, but I think it might just be buck grease. She gave us a pet shampoo to bathe him with and say they will not remove his tumor until this "infection" is gone. We asked her about rat surgery. She says she has operated on 40 or 50 rats and 1 of them has died during surgery because his tumor was huge and infected. She uses isoflaurine anesthesia, keeps the rat warm during surgery, and sends the rat home with pain meds. They also say they will quarantine food for about 6 hours, not because they think the rat will throw up, but for the anesthesia. They also say that they will not do bloodwork because it would be too much of a hassle to wait for the blood to regenerate after they take 1cc for the bloodwork. Is it true that you should quarantine food for anesthesia and not do bloodwork? If they do not sound like a good vet, then I can try to look for different vets. Also,when Tony had his foot infection, the vet told us to separate Sammy and Tony because Sammy might think his foot is food and eat it, so we kept them in separate cages. We tried to put them back together, but I guess somehow they must have forgot about each other, because they got in a horrible fight. How can I introduce them to each other again? We also have 1 other rat, Rice. When the rats were babies, they all got along great. about a year ago, Sammy or Tony got in a fight with him and we didn't notice. We came back, and Rice got a deep and bleeding cut on his cheek. They (Sammy and Tony from Rice) have been separated ever since then, and will absolutely NOT get along with each other. If they ever smell each other, their fur will rise, they will chatter their teeth, they will breathe really hard/hiss, and they will bite you very hard if you try to pick them up. Is there any way that we could possibly get them to get along again? I've heard that neutering them helps, but they are already 3 months away from being 2.5 years old.

ANSWER: DO NOT USE THIS VET!   Keeping food will make the rat not be able to absorb the anesthesia properly and can cause death during or after surgery.  Your rat has a case of buck grease for pete sake, not an infection. Its obvious they are not experienced.  Sadly, it sounds to some people like 40 surgeries is good, but thats not nearly enough to make me feel better about this vet at all.  I would like to try to find someone else for you if you dont mind.  I would never let an elderly rat go under anesthesia without blood work.  He is old, his liver could be less than healthy for this surgery and the same goes for his heart.  If his liver function is not up to par, he wont be able to filter the anesthesia and will die.   Saying its a PAIN to do blood work and wait for it to build up again is also BS.  It can be done a week or two prior to surgery and it will regenerate in no time.  Anything to promote safety should never be thought of as being a "pain"   They properly have no clue how to obtain a good blood sample and this is why they hesitate on drawing blood.

Also, that vet was so crazy to suggest you separate the rats.  They are acting like they are primitive creatures that will eat each other or what?  Thats so crazy I dont know if I should laugh or be angry about the lack of education they have about rats and proper care. Now you have rats that dont get along thanks to the vet and their poor suggestions.   I would also not neuter them for this, it wont help now.   WHen rats are sick the best medicine for them is to be kept with their cage mate so they dont stress out.  Stress hinders recovery.  

I would find another vet for all of your rats needs.  Seriously. Where are you located?

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi,
Thank you for your last answer. I would like to find a better vet. We live in Huntington Beach, California (Orange County).

Answer

First choice below, with Dr. White as second.  I hope you can make it to one of their clinics. They may be nearly an hour drive but its worth it for a good vet.


Dr. Bruce Levine
All Creatures Animal Hospital    
5405 Arrow Hwy Ste
 Montclair CA 91763
Phone:    909-946-3211
Website: www.allcreaturesanimalhealth.com


Dr. Tania White
Hancock Park Veterinary Clinic    Exotic Pets Seen:
5178 Wilshire Bd
Los Angeles CA 90036
Phone:    323-936-6952
Website:www.hancockparkah.com