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About Sharon McCarthy
Expertise
I can help with most questions about residential plumbing problems including septic systems, and some questions about irrigation. I have no experience with commercial installations or codes.

Experience
I have been a sole-proprietor service plumber in two small towns north of Phoenix Arizona for 26 years.

Publications
I had a monthly column in the United Steelworkers of America, local 1033, newsletter 1978 to 1982. I wrote an article for "The Theosophist" in 1977. I've written dozens of letters to the editor in many newspapers.

Education/Credentials
High school and three years of college. My step-father, having worked 40 years in the plumbing trade in Chicago, taught me for two years. The rest has been hands-on experience.

Past/Present Clients
Many hundreds of good people in Cave Creek and Carefree Arizona

You are here: Experts > Home/Garden > Home Improvement/Repair > Plumbing in the Home > Shower Valve Leaking

Plumbing in the Home - Shower Valve Leaking

Expert: Sharon McCarthy - 11/9/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hi, I just bought a house and am trying to learn how to do most of the work myself...

Two months ago I replaced the hot water valve in my shower because it was leaking... it was stuck, while my friend tried to loosen it - he bent the shaft that was sticking out, so instead of buying a .49 washer, I had to purchase the whole valve.

Recently the hot water started leaking AGAIN! I unscrewed the hot water valve again (this time it was easy) and saw that the washer was messed up and corroded and the screw wasn't attached. I found a washer that we bought in a set, put the screw back on, and put the valve back into the wall...

Except, now the water is leaking into the wall and into the downstairs bathroom - luckily, I'm re-doing that one as well!!! ... so I have no water until I can figure this out :(

So now my questions: What could have happened that it went from a small, minor leak from the spout to water pouring everywhere from the wall? I've watched several videos and everything appears to be okay in the valve and new washer I put in... except the washer that is at the end of the valve, the side the goes closest to the wall, isn't as big as the circumference of the brass piece - but it appears to be the same as the one I took out from the newly purchased valve. I didn't have to force the valve to loosen it or anything - my dad thinks that something broke in the wall maybe?

Next question, why are the washers getting torn up so quickly?

I would really appreciate a quick response just because the water is off in the house until I figure it out.

Thanks

ANSWER: Dear Joanna,

  I understand. I'd guess you have a Price Pfister two-handle tub/shower fixture [might be three handles if you have the type with a diverter in the center].

  First of all, there are a dozen different sizes of washers for Price Pfister stems. The smallest are size 000 [triple "ought"] which are VERY small, then 00, then 0. Still on the small side. Then they go into 1/4" sizes, 1/4S [for small], 1/4M [for medium], 1/4L [for large]. The last size, 1/4L is the size washer you need for the PP shower stems.

  Then there are both "flat washers" and "beveled washers". The beveled washers are more cone-shaped and are thicker. Both types come in the same sizes that I mentioned.

  Why your washer is getting ragged is because of another part further inside called a "seat". The "seat" can be removed. This part is way in back and is threaded in. Visualize this: when you turn the handle to the off position, the washer goes IN and closes off the water, right? The washer presses up against a round metal part in the back, and this is called the "seat".

  The outer rim of the "seat" is supposed to be smooth. When the washer presses up against the seat, it should make a complete seal so water doesn't leak through. But often a small piece of metal will wear off the edge of the "seat". When the rubber washer presses up against it, this nick will leave a small hole where water can leak through. Then the water wears a bigger hole. Finally that nick will start tearing up the washer.

  You need to replace the "seat". This is what I suggest you do. I could write for another half hour explaining how to do this. It's not that hard to do, but it's hard to explain! Take the stem to a local Ace Hardware and get a few of the guys together. Tell them you need to replace the "seat". They will find the correct part and they can sell you a "seat wrench" and give you some tips about how this is done.

When you are ready to put the new seat in, use Teflon pipe PASTE on the threads. Very important! Otherwise it will leak and you'll be back to the same problem! Good luck. sharon

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Wow - You're absolutely correct about model/brand etc. ... Can I still replace the "Seat" if it's behind tile deep in the wall?... and then do you think that the wrong size washer is really causing the flooding out of the valve in the wall? I have about an inch of water on the floor in the downstairs bathroom??? It was barely leaking with the old ragged washer, I can't imagine that a new smaller one will make the water POUR from the valve instead of drip from the spout?

I'm sort of worried about trying & failing again because the water got the drywall, plywood, & more soaking wet.

Thanks for your help! I REALLY appreciate your advice.

Answer
Dear Joanna,

  OK, I really didn't read your first question carefully enough. I didn't get that water is literally pouring down inside the wall to the floor below.

  If the washer you used was under-sized it would only cause the water to leak out of the spout, not down the inside wall. The leaking might be due to a plastic ring that might either be missing or broken. This thin plastic ring fits around the threads that screw into the faucet body. Sorry if this sounds confusing, it's so hard to describe in writing!

  Remember what you did, you took off the handle and the chrome sleeve behind the handle. Then you used a wrench to remove the whole valve stem unit. The long part going all the way through the unit is called the "stem". The handle fits onto one end of the "stem", the washer is screwed into the other end.

  Then there is the outside unit the stem goes through. When you unscrewed this part, you had to turn it 5 or 6 full turns before it came out, right? Those are the threads I'm talking about. This thin plastic ring goes over those threads and rests against the flat part at the base of the threads. This ring is very important. When you screw that unit back in, that ring keeps water from leaking behind the wall.

  I have worked on this model faucet a hundred times. Sometimes the ring stays on the stem unit when you remove it, but sometimes the ring sticks onto the rim of the hole. And sometimes when that happens it will fall off when you're not looking.

  There are only two reasons for water leaking in the wall with this fixture. Either the plastic ring is missing [or if it's on there it might be cracked, Ace Hardware has them], or you didn't screw the stem unit back in snugly enough. When I replace that stem unit, I use a special wrench designed just for this purpose, which you can buy at any hardware store. It fits exactly over the outside hex shape of the unit. You slide it over the unit [the back end will be in the wall], then turn this wrench with an adjustable pliers to take it out and put it back in.

  I always tighten the unit in snugly, then give it an extra twist. If it's loose, it will leak. You can't break this fixture!! Trust me! Your PP fixture is heavy solid brass, you can't break it. Go ahead and take it out again. Check to see if the ring is on, and make sure you tighten it good when you put it back. You'll be a plumber in no time!! Sharon

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