Poker/Limit Texas Hold'em
Do you play any fixed limit holdem poker? If so would you bet turn with a non pair missed why or why not verse one player?
I have played limit Texas Hold'em, but these days stick to the no-limit game.
As with most situations in poker the answer is "It Depends". Factors to consider are:
• How many players started the hand and what's your position?
• What was the pre-flop and flop betting?
• Is this a tournament or a cash game?
• What are your stack sizes relative to the big bet?
• Which hands can you represent and which can your opponent represent?
• How does your opponent perceive your table image?
• What range of hands do you put your opponent on?
There are probably many other factors to consider before betting the turn as a pure bluff. Here are two extreme scenarios:
All 9 opponents limp to me in the big blind pre-flop. We hold 3c-2s and check. The flop is Qs-Js-Ts. It's checked to a middle-position player bets and we're the only caller. The turn is the 7c and we miss. We're first to act. I'm checking 100% of the time here.
The small blind opened the action for a raise and we called from the big blind. The villain checks a flop of Ac-Kd-2s and checks again when a 6h hits the turn. I'm betting 100% of the time regardless of my holdings.
So, you can see that there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to this situation. It all depends.
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QUESTION: I can't quite figure out what equity I need in fixed limit for a pocket pair and for ace high and maybe king high verse one player and then verse two and three etc and then does it change in a 3 bet pot. If I knew the exact hands he played what equity do I need with ace high to call the turn first in 6 handed verse one opponent with ace king or ace queen and then what equity on river?
This is an easier question to answer. Let me provide a couple scenarios. In both I'll assume we're playing 6-handed limit Texas Hold'em with $1/$2 blinds.
Scenario #1: One Opponent
Let's assume that there is $12 in the pot and we're heads-up on the turn and in position. Our opponent leads out for $4. We're now faced with a call of $4 to win the $16 pot. This means that for our call with Ace high to be profitable we must win 1 in 5 times. A quick method to calculate this at the table is to divide your call into the pot size and then add 1. So ($16/$4)+1=5. If you think your opponent will show up with worse than Ace high one out of 5 times, or 20% of the time, then calling is a break-even move. If he's got worse than Ace high more than 20% of the time, then calling is +EV.
Scenario #2: Two Opponents
Let's assume there is the same $12 in the pot but we're 3-handed and in position. The first player to act leads for $4 on the turn and is called. There's now $20 in the pot and it's $4 to call. Applying what we've learned above we only need to be ahead 1 in 6 times, or 16%, to correctly call. The problem with more than 1 opponent is that now we have to beat them both at the same time. This has a multiplying effect. If you have Opponent 1 beaten 1-out-of-6 times, and have Opponent 2 beaten 1-out-of-6 times, then you'll only have them both beaten 1-out-of-36 times. To imagine this multiplying effect in another way, let's assume we're rolling a single dice where high number wins. You've rolled a 2 in this scenario. You have Opponent 1 beaten 1-out-of-6 rolls (i.e. you only beat him if he rolls a 1) You also have Opponent 2 beaten 1-out-of-6 times for the same reasons. But against 2 opponents (i.e. 2 dice), they both must roll a 1 in order for you to win. The odds of rolling snake eyes, or 1-1, with a pair of dice is 36-to-1. This means that calling against two players with only ace high and no draws to improve is rarely worth it in limit poker. Against 3 opponents it's even worse -- plus you may have to fade up to 18 outs on the river which could pair either of your 3 opponent's hole cards, beating your ace high.
Remember, in both scenarios you will still face a decision on the river. In scenario #1, if your opponent leads again for $4 into the now $20 pot, you're getting better odds to call, but you must take into consideration whether your opponent is going to fire both the turn and river with nothing but a bluff.
Hope that this explains how to easily calculate your equity at the table when facing a turn bet.
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QUESTION: That's a good response. Just a couple more questions. Live poker do you think only half a big bet an hour is possible because only 30 or 40 hands dealt? Say I raise 6 handed and you re raise ace king and I cap are you folding turn here to my bet? Similar situation, I call the 3 bet and check raise flop in that hand are you folding turn here? Then last question is to a flop raise with 2nd pair is it worth it past turn with one or two players? I never really get many reads.
Q: Do you think only half a big bet an hour is possible because only 30 or 40 hands dealt?
A: Yes. I would say that 1-2 big bets per hour is possible, depending on your tablemates.
Q: Say I raise 6 handed and you re-raise with A-K and I cap. Are you folding turn here to my bet?
A: Since you're asking if I would fold on the turn, I have to assume that I re-raised on the flop holding A-K and did not pair up. I'm not sure I would re-raise in that situation and I certainly may not call your 4-bet without a draw to more than 1 pair. If I missed the turn, and there was no possible river card to bluff you off your hand, then I would fold to your turn bet holding the nut no-pair.
Q: Similar situation, I call the 3 bet and check raise flop in that hand. Are you folding turn here?
A: Yes. Again, assuming that the flop and turn did not improve my hand, then I'm folding to your check-raise on the flop and never even seeing the turn.
Q: To a flop raise with 2nd pair, is it worth it past turn with one or two players?
A: If you're only draw is to trips or to pair your kicker, then I'd fold when you miss the turn and are facing a bet. If the turn brings flush or straight draws, then I'd re-evaluate. Also, if the turn put a believable draw out there that I could bluff you on the river, then I might call. Also, if the flop was very wet, like J-T-6 with 2 suites, then you might be semi-bluffing with a hand like a flush draw and back door straight draw, say K-9 suited. Then my A-K might pair up to beat you, I hit a gut-shot Broadway, or, if my ace is the same suit as your cards, I may consider bluffing the river if the flush gets there. Adding the 2nd player makes it more difficult as hands like A-J or K-T have us drawing very slim against 2 opponents.
The Limit Hold'em section in Super System II
is well worth the read.