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Polish Language/First and Last Name Question: Bartomy Solensky

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Question
On my grandfathers wedding license, it stated that his fathers name was Bartomy Solknski.  How is Bartomy being used? I s this a nickname?

Answer
Dear Clyde,

I seriously doubt if this is what is written in the original wedding licence. There are obvious errors in both the first and the last names. Such spellings are impossible in Polish. There is no given name "Bartomy" - the closest ones that come to my mind are either "Bartosz" or "Bartlomiej". There is no surname "Solknski", the closest one that comes to my mind could be "Solinski".

Did the wedding take place in Poland? In which year? Is the wedding licence handwritten? Is it written in Polish or im Latin? Could scan the original and e-mail it to me or post it somewhere on the web? If you could do it, please make a follow-up question to this answer, then I will send you my e-mail address.

Sincerely yours

Maciej

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dr.

Thank you so much for such a quick response.  The "correct" spelling is Solenski.  So far I have found 15 different spellings in America. The name of my Grandfather's wife was listed as Carolina Voliok.  This is incorrect also.  Her name was Karolina Dobolek.  I have also found 12 variations of that spelling. This has made it very difficult to "find" records in the States. I agree with you with your thoughts that it could be either Bartosz or Bartlomiej.  Your answer will allow me to "forget" Bartomy and focus on those two names. Both families came from the Galicia region of Poland.  Dobolek's were from the Slupiec area.  I am trying to find out where my Grandfather was from.  I am leaning towards the area around Cmolas, Poland.  Again Dr., your thoughts and answer where more than expected.

Clyde A. Solenski
2nd Generation Polish American


Dear Clyde,

If you ever have the scan of the original, send it to me, I'll try to decipher the handwritten words. What you have sent now is but a transcript made by some ignoramus, who completely didn't understand what he (she?) was reading.

Soleński is possible yet it is quite a rare surname.

See: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/sole%25C5%2584ski.html (for 7 males)
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/sole%25C5%2584ska.html (for 10 females).

Only 17 people altogether in Poland bear that surname now, according to the census of 2001.

The green spot on the bottom right of bothe maps is the Kolbuszowa county, where you can find the municipality of Cmolas. The next green one, more to the left, (only on the males' map) is the county of Dąbrowa Tarnowska, where Słupiec is situated.

On the other hand, Soliński is quite popular as a surname,
see: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soli%25C5%2584ski.html (1180 males)
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soli%25C5%2584ska.html (1338 females)

Thanks for the nice words in your comment. You were lucky as I rarely answer the question so quick, you just happened to send me the question right before I sat down to my computer after having come back home from the town.


Regards

MAciej


PS. Having read the record once again, I am now sure that the first name should be Bartłomiej, i.e. Bartholomew. All the first names were "slightly anglicised" there, but nowhere fully.

Bartosz would be possible if the record were written in Galicia and only then transcribed into typewritten form (I was thinking it could have been the 'long' handwritten 'z' lokking a bit like a '3', going down - which could have been easily taken for a 'y').

greetings

M.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Doc:

You are terrific.  I need to send to Mass for a copy of the original.
Everything that I can find is all wrong.  

I always knew you couldn't trust the Irish in New England to transcribe documents correctly.  

Again Dr., you have been more help than you know.

I will keep you in our file and contact you when a copy of the original arrives.

Clyde A. Solenski

Here are some of the spelling that have been found on US/State official documents.  

a.  Solinski
b.  Zelinsky
c.  Solnisky
d.  Solinsky
e.  Soliski
f.  Salenski
g.  Solonski
h.  Solesnka
i.  Osselinski
j.  Solensky
k.  Sabensky
l.  Sobansky


Answer:   Dear Clyde,

All those surnames, if they are Polish, are written with the "n", before the final "-ski", having an acute accent on it, like that: "ń" (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%83). You should bear this in mind. Due to the fact that AllExperts does not show the special Polish letter correctly, I will not change the spelling in the names below,


The Polish ending is always -ski for males, -ska for females. These surnames are adjectives (read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_name). The ending in -y means that the surname is either of alien origin (Czech, Slovak, Ukrainian) or that it has been influenced by the English spelling.


Let's check them name by name

a.  Solinski
definitely an existing Polish surname
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soli%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soli%25C5%2584ski.html

b.  Zelinsky
not a Polish surname, but definitely a separate Czech, a Slovak or an Ukrainian one. The corresponding separate Polish surname is written "Zielinski/-ska"
See http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/zieli%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/zieli%25C5%2584ska.html

c.  Solnisky
not a Polish surname, I have no idea if it could be a Czech etc. surname,
a similar Polish surname is Solnicki
see: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/solnicki.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/solnicka.html

d.  Solinsky
definitely may be a Czech etc. surname, or a variant of the surname written under (a) above, influenced by English

e.  Soliski
not a surname existing in Poland today, although it sounds like something possible to exist

f.  Salenski
NB. The 's' of "Solinski" (and of the surnames listed under a, c, d, e, g, h, i, j, k, l) is pronounced like the 's' in 'solid' or 'solitary', whereas the 'z' of "Zelinsky"/"Zielinski" is pronounced like the 'z' of 'zoo'. I have doubts, whether the intial 's' here means 'ss' or 'z'. In the first case it is not a surname existing in Poland today, but in the other case (I think that this is what is inetended), this is rather an alternated spelling of Zalenski, not of Solinski.
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/zale%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/zale%25C5%2584ska.html

g.  Solonski
not a surname existing in Poland today, although it sounds like something possible to exist
(both in the form Soloński and Sołoński, with l-barred)

But it might be a distorted spelling of Sloński
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/slo%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/slo%25C5%2584ska.html

or (more probable) of Słoński
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/s%25C5%2582o%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/s%25C5%2582o%25C5%2584ska.html

h.  Solesnka
definitely a distorted spelling of Soleńska feminie for Soleński (compare under (j) below)

i.  Osselinski
a distorted spelling of Ossolinski, definitely a separate surname:
see: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/ossoli%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/ossoli%25C5%2584ska.html
NB. Ossolinskis were a very famous family, i.a. founders of the National Library of Poland (search for them in Wikipedia)

j.  Solensky
this is either a Czech etc. surname, or an "anglicised" spelling of Solenski, definitely a separate surname:
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/sole%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/sole%25C5%2584ska.html

k.  Sabensky
not a surname existing in Poland today, although it sounds like something possible to exist as a Czech surname; maybe a distorted version of (l)

l.  Sobansky
definitely a separate surname, Czech etc. one or with the spelling adjusted to the English custom, Polish spelling "Sobanski":
see http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soba%25C5%2584ski.html
and http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/soba%25C5%2584ska.html

All the best

Maciej

PS. Dear Clyde,
This is the edited version of our exchange of 'private' Q&As. Having removed the image with your private data, and my private e-mail address, I am sending it to the public.  

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Maciej St. Zięba

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I am native Polish and from time to time I teach Polish to foreigners. I know (passively of actively) more than 15 other languages - so I can answer many questions concerning Polish grammar, pronounciation, spelling, etymology and usage - as compared to English, French, German, Russian, Dutch, Esperanto or Norwegian. Also questions concerning other Slavic languages, Sanskrit, Chinese, Tibetan, or general linguistics, especially scripts (writing systems and transcriptions) - are welcome.

Experience

Teaching English, French, and Esperanto to Poles, Polish to foreigners, teaching Sanskrit, Mandarin Chinese, Classical Chinese and Tibetan. Tour Guide in English, French, Russian and German. Former President of the Regional Examination Committee for Tourist Guides (English and French)(1999-2005).

Organizations
Polish Oriental Society (since 1979); International Association of Buddhist Studies (since 1986); Klingon Language Institute (since 1986); Learned Society of the John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin (since 1989); Polish Philosophical Association (since 1997); Universala Esperanto-Asocio (since 1978).

Publications
Books: "Origin of the World According to Rigveda" (Montreal 1996); "Our River Bug. Creating Conditions for Development of the Border Areas of Poland, Ukraine and Belarus through Enhancement and Preservation of Natural and Cultural Heritage" (Lublin 2008); "Migration - a Challenge to the 21st century" (Lublin 2008); "Migracja zarobkowa do Woch" (Job migration to Italy) (Lublin 2008); more than 100 articles in "Powszechna Encyklopedia Filozofii" (Universal Encyclopedia od Philosophy) vol. 1-10 (Lublin 2000-2009); many more in Polish, some of them available online, see: here and here (a list up to 2012.

Education/Credentials
Studying philosophy at Catholic University of Lublin (Poland) 1976-81; PhD in Philosophy (1989). Having learned languages in Gdansk and Gdynia (Russian, Esperanto, Latin, English - International Bacalaureate), Lublin (KUL - French, German, Dutch, Sanskrit, Latin, Ancient Greek; UMCS - Chinese, Japanese; elsewhere - Esperanto, Spanish, Italian), Paris (IIAP - French; INALCO - Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese; Sorbonne - Sanskrit), Asker (Norwegian, while working in a kindergarten!), Montreal (McGill - Chinese); Rome and Venice (Italian); Taichung, Taiwan (Chinese), Shimla, India (sanskrit). Self-taught: Slavic languages (other than Polish and Russian), Hungarian, Korean, Vietnamese, Klingon and several other.

Awards and Honors
2012 Golden Medal of Civil Service of Poland; 2012-13 Taiwan Fellowship - Tunghai University (Taichung)

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AllExperts users (since 12/03/2003); Wikipedia readers in many languages (since 2004); students learning languages (since 1979).

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