AboutJayendra Upadhye Expertise I hope to be of help to youngsters with general science concepts and may be problems they find hard to understand or solve. (I would love it if it was NOT all classwork handed out to me under the guise of questions though!).
I have been reasonably successful doing that earlier, but chiefly i love this kind of thing.
Experience
Past/Present clients I fail to understand "client" here.
1 - If askme can qualify as a previous "client", well then that was one name.
2 - By the same token This site (astronomy) is the current one!
Else my work is all related to the world of programming and manufacturing (maintenance).
I have been Sr.Manager (electrical &electronics maint.) for a plant manufacturing biaxially oriented polypropylene sheet for some years, located west coast of india.
(where i did some original data acquisition and control work on nuclear Beta-ray non-contact thickness gauges).
In my programming career I have worked for Dell Computers (asia pacific, Penang, Malaysia) to name but one important name!
Expert: Jayendra Upadhye Date: 7/15/2008 Subject: What is colour?
Question QUESTION: -what is colour? Where does the colour I see come from? Is colour just a perception in mind? how is colour form? How did our mind "produce" those colour?
-How is it possible for us to know do we perceive the same visual experience when we see the same thing? Is it possible for our brain to have the same perception of colour?
-How about size? Texture? Distance? Human look? Do normal human have the same field of vision? meaning our vision perceive the same thing? can we see the same detail?
-Are we able to see the same hue and shade? since some colour is able to glow in dark?
-Do our brains create the same colour from the wavelength of colour of electromagnetic spectrum?
ANSWER: Hi,
Rambo! Man what has gotten into you?
I had come up with these questions in first year of my college, and few had bothered even to go thru them seriously.
Rambo it is all about evolution and genes!
The human collective experience has shaped the lives of the individual.
Meaning those traits that were common to all humans as a whole, and which enabled them to have a given minimum fighting chance of survival, such as the "herd" instinct, collective hunting, social life, 3d forward vision, a good sense of hearing etc, all shape the way individuals see and react.
Thius when you see "red" at a particular frequency end of the spectrum, 99.99% of the others do the same.
Because you are just one of the "many", one of a class of organisms called "humans".
Just like a toyota colrolla with a number plate "xyz" is the same as another toyota colrolla with plate "abc".
Only the number and age and condition of car differs. But the compression ratio, engine torque at a given rpm, its brake horse power etc are all the same!
"Perceprtion" in most cases is hard wired to a certain degree and hence same depending on the species.
Some of it is conditioned or altered based on the individual's history of health/sickness/age etc.
Be it sight perception of color), feel (texture), judgement of distance, fear of hieghts, water, fire, etc.
The Brains percieve color based on the rods/cones in the retina, and attach labels such as "red" , "blue" etc to what we each see.
As we live in a social set up and not in isolation, we soon synchronise! (in early childhood itself, i learn that my "red" is "red" for others too.
[Mind you, each one may be percieving something unique and diffrent for the frequency in question, but calling it red by experience, "knowing" or "having learnt" to label anything with the shade of a ripe apple as "red".
But i doubt about the unique and different lookup tables for each individual, as the genetic code and shared evolution of the homo-spaiens group as a whole, ensures, identity of experiences at a very deep biological level.
For example sugar will taste the same, and hearts will function the same, else transplants would have failed.
For some reason, nature prefers to put all its eggs in as many baskets as possible, for survival, so even in humans, at the biological level you still have the blood groups A / B / AB/ O etc.
AND THE IMMUNE RESPONSE!
Another dead give away about shared perceptions is
1 - The fact that a "beautiful woman" is percieved as such by "all males of same age". That would not happen unless the "idea of beauty" is a SHARED concept!
2 - When you tell cooks something is less sweet, they add more sugar and not salt!
3 - when asked to "march forward", some soldiers dont start marching backwards!
All human ideas of color/touch/hearing/good/bad/beautiful/ugly are shared, and hence identical. The variance comes only in degree.
It goes far back in evolution to the days when the small animals that would evolve into humans came out at night to eat and burrowed into the ground during the day, or climbed the safety of the trees. They most probably bred and congregated in large numbers on full moon days, giving the female oestrus cycle a period of 28 days, which coincides with a lunar month rather than a solar one!
regards
Please do rate the answer if you find it helpful.
Jayen
regards
Jayen
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hi, so we do perceive the same colour in every brain?
how about our sense of taste? why same group of human seem to choosy over certain food? what is "good taste"?
-may I know Is it possible to for human brain to perceive the same taste or flavour, if we have the same reaction when we taste the same taste? taste is a also a perception in brain right?
-How do i know my sweet is "sweet"? how can I prove that sweet I taste is "sweet"? How do I know my "sweet" is the same "sweet" in her mind?
-Do human have the same mouthfeel over food?
-should normal human mind should able to perceive the same taste? since we belong to the same species?as we are able to taste sweet, sour, salt and bitter?
-Is it ok for us to the brain to perceive taste differently, if we are able to differentiate different taste? This is a opinion question.
Same for odour, heat, cold and sound? It may be a perception in our brain? but do you think our brain may interpret and perceive them similarly?
-Do you believe in God? or believe we are just simulation or illusion of ourself?-Finally, Are we human different or similar? Do we have the same type of receptor and mentality for us to survive in this world? as we the same species? or are everyone different?
-How can I prove that I am a real human being instead of clone, copies or simulation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axw8AeNVS1c&eurl=http://forums.hardwarezone.com.s...
-Is the world is like how it seem? if colour only a perception in human mind...
-Do you believe in God? or believe we are just simulation or illusion of ourself?
-Finally, Are we human different or similar? are build the same or differently? as we the same species? why do everyone seem to the same yet different?
Hope my answer is not too "philosophy"
Answer Hi Rambo,
It is to you i believe i said "one must ask only those questions tha tcan yield meaningful answers!
The rest of the questions that do not satisfy above criteria are "Trivial".
example of a trivial question answer session:-
1 - What causes gravity?
ans- Space time curvature.
2 - But how can space time curvature cause gravity?
ans- Beacause bats fly at night!
Meaning the above ste of q/a dont help one understand anything only generate "hot air", and may be a satisfaction of "discussing something abstruse and complicated"!!
Hope you get my point.
I already said we all "build our lookup tables" (affix labels such as "red" "blue", "sweet sour", "high low", "loud soft", "light dark" etc to various sensory perceptions and degrees of perceptions.
I also said clearly that evolutionary biological processes and shared "communal" behavioural evolutionary processes such as "hunting gathering" dictate that all humans "prercieve alike"!
What more can one say more meaningfully on that?
Does it really matter a whit if your lookup table value for "red" is say some hue and that of another another hue?
As long as both of you call an apple "red"?
Discussing further on that topic is a "waste of time" Rambo!
Because we DO NOT HAVE a 3rd lookup table that can simultanously sense both sets of labels in two people under consideration.
TAHT IS GODS JOB! :)
So why flog a dead horse?
Most of your questions can be answered meaningfully by you if you follow above logic.
Including the one "am i a simulation?
It is a trivial question, because a s we progressively go deeper into argument you will fall again and again in the "absense of 3rd validator" trap. And besides "hot air" nothing of use will result.
Certain "knowledge" can therefore be gained only by direct experience as by YOGIS.
lET ME EXPLAIN.
A blind person will not be able to see a rock in his path.
His companion who "can see" will warn of the rock in advance, and the blind guy will be very surprised about "how the hell did the other guy know?
No amount of explaining can tell the blind one what sight is!
Like wise we are still blind to many things, and we must honestly accept that fact.
The true SEER can actually do the function of the higher 3rd party and look at all the labels in all the lookup tables in every ones heads and "see"!
Such a person will then effortlessly read minds, read the future past and present by holding an object in his hand, walk past walls, be a demigod.
But as in the example above, he will be unable to explain you HOW!
Even if he did, you (we) wouldnt understand, exactly as sight cannot be ever percieved by a person born blind.
Only direct experience can transfer certain types of knowledge! Period .
So come out of this headlong tailspin, stabilise yourself, and ask only "answerable and understandable questons.
Remember unless you know arithmetic you wont grasp calculus!
And most of us can count to 3 at best when it comes to things such as these.
Regarding my belief in GOD, YES! Ido believe in him/her/it.
But to grasp what my concept of GOD is, you must know the hindu concept of a LIVINNG god or entity that IS the cosmos!!
GOD is everywhere around us in THIS universe and not something separate from it.
Even as the air flows around you you feel his caress!
So simple.
And when something you like happens, it is "GODS HANDSHAKE" with you!
Tune yourself to him.
"Him" is just an euphemism! God cannot have a gender, as god is perforce free of all limiting and dependent dualities. (man/woman, day/night, youth, old age, life / death, light/ darkness..each of these dualities requires the other to be present as a reference to be defined against it. (as light against dark).
Imagine an entity free of all this, even free of time, something timeless, a universal set that has everything and is yet NOT that everything alone.
That will bring you to the upanishadic god, a genderless timeless entity one aspect of which is the material cosmos...the mind matter of brahma so to say..you endure in him, and feel him all around you.
If this concept is internalised as opposed to understood, the holographic universe will be your playground and you will proclaim rightly, "I am it", "Iam god"! ..and you will indeed pull out diamonds from a pot of muddy water..A holographic universe contains everything everywhere!
Hope that suffices,
regards
Please do rate the answer if you find it helpful.
Jayen
