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Saxophone/Dorn & Kirschner Stencil Alto Sax -


QUESTION: Hi - my husband found an Alto Saxophone in the garbage and he and our 12 year old are trying to get it working - it needs some TLC.  I've been doing some research and it seems to be that it must be a Conn made stencil but I can't find any lists that support Conn ever making Dorn & Kirschner stencils.  It says Patent Sept 15 1915 and then patent number 1153489.  It also say A P29252 L.  I've determined that the A is alto and the L is low pitch and there's where my research ends.

I know that Conn used PXXXX for their Pan-American line but they also used PXXXX for their 1971 line.  I'm also told that stencil serial numbers don't usually line up with the manufacturer's serial numbers.

We have no interest in selling it - we want to use it - but we're curious as to it's age.  Appreciate any help you can give.

ANSWER: Hello Holly,
Your Stencil Alto sax is worth fixing up. Please take the saxophone to a certified
NAPBIRT(Google it) repair facility.The P prefix was for a Conn second line Pan American saxophones and Conn stencils which were basically the same as the Second line models...there is a Pan american serial number chart but it is only for the brass instruments... but my guess is this sax is from the late 1920's to the early 1930's...But I need pictures...A little background...D&K was a music retailer located in Newark, NJ, and later had outlets around the North Jersey area. In the 1920s the Newark flagship store was one of very few music stores that made saxophones their main business. The main store closed shortly after the Newark riots of '67-'68. Supposedly, Don Stephens of the Nuclear Whales found his contrabass sax in the building many years later, shortly before it was to be condemned. The story as told on the Nuclear Whales website (scroll to "The Mother of All Horns" at is even more bizarre than this. According to Dean Kirschner, the "Kirschner" in Dorn & Kirschner: "In the 1960's, the horn was apparently found abandoned in a downtown Newark, New Jersey building," he said. "When wreckers searched the building before demolishing it they found many old abandoned musical instruments, including the contrabass." So the horn came close to winding up under the rubble of a demolished building.Your sax was in that building!!
Good Luck! Grant Koeller

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QUESTION: Great!  That's awesome - thank you so much!.  I've taken some pictures if you're interested in seeing it.

Thanks for the great photos!!! They don't make saxophones like this any more..This is a beautiful old Conn Stencil alto. Look at that beautiful engraving! He found it in the garbage???? who would throw away such a beautiful instrument? That was a crime....Please get it restored at any NAPBIRT certified repair facility.
Thanks Grant Koeller


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Grant R. Koeller


I'm a Professional Jazz Saxophone soloist recently retired from 23 years with the USAF Band Of Flight, WPAFB, OHIO, experienced in performance, technique and equipment. I'm not a buyer/seller or dealer. I have 40 years Alto, Tenor, Soprano and Bari Saxophone performance experience with additional years on the Flute, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet, Bass Guitar, Piano, Drum-set, Guitar and Voice. I'm a third generation professional military musician, my father, Bill Koeller(1939-1997) was in the USAF 1958-1962, and played Jazz Hammond B-3 organ from 1957-1997, and my fathers Uncle, Alfred Koeller (1912-1993), was a professional Acoustic Bassist in the Army Air Corps in WWII, and also performed on Jazz Guitar, Hammond organ, Piano and tenor saxophone.


Professional Saxophone Soloist, 23 total years with the USAF Bands, 6 years with the USAF Band of Flight, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, performing on Tenor, Alto, Soprano, Clarinet, and Flute. 4 years in Japan, at Yokota AFB with the USAF Band of the Pacific. An Avid Composer and Arranger for the Night Hawk Protocol Combo. Former Lead Alto Saxophonist with the USAF Night Flight Big Band performing the music of Glenn Miller as well as other hits of the Big Band Era. I collect LP records of Jazz, blue's, classical and rock, and have over 12,000 records.

USAF,Phi MU Alpha Sinfonia, Men's National Music Fraternity, Johnny Mack Super Big Band, Tom Daugherty Orchestra, Kim Kelly Orchestra, Dayton Jazz Orchestra, Eddie Love Big Band, Gem City Big Band, Jazz Central Big Band, Shin Sings Orchestra, Kim Kelly Orchestra,USAF Night Flight Jazz Ensemble, Different Hats Big Band, Jimmy Baker Blues Band, This Side Up, Freelance, KING KOELLER Quartet, Jazz Central Big Band, GB Work, Sax On The Web,

Saxophone On the Web; Anchorage Daily News; All Experts; Augustana College Public Radio, WVIK;

North Texas State University School of Music, Jazz Studies 1982-1986 Lead Alto, Lab bands 1982-83 and small group leader 1983-1984, Jazz Radio Host WVIK 90.1 FM NPR affiliate Rock Island, IL United States Collegiate Wind Band European tour 1980 Augustana College, Rock Island IL, Liberal Arts Music Mentors/Teachers:My father Bill Koeller, a Jazz Hammond B-3 Organist (1939-1997) Great Uncle Alfred Koeller, Acoustic Bass 1912-1993

Awards and Honors
Paul Shartle Musician of the Quarter Spring 2008; Glenn Miller Festival, Clarinda, Iowa featured soloist; McDonald's All-American Band and Jazz Ensemble 1979; US Collegiate Wind Bands,Paul Lavalle Conductor, tour of Europe,1980; John Phillip Sousa Award, 1980 Dimond HS Anchorage, Alaska; USAF National Defense Service Medal with Bronze Star; USAF Achievement Medal with 5 Oak Leaf Clusters; USAF Good Conduct Medal with 6 Oak Leaf Clusters

Past/Present Clients
Performed with, Bob Hope, The Platters, Four Tops, Jimmy Dorsey, Crystal Gail, Helen Ready, James Williams, Dallas Jazz Orchestra, Jack Jones, The Mills Brothers, the G-Clef's, Lionel Hampton at Carnegie Hall, Performed for the King Of Thailand 2005, Tom "Bone's" Malone, Roy Hargrove, Tommy Turrentine, Performed for President Gerald Ford, President George W. Bush, The Maguire Sisters, The USO Girls-Andrew Sisters Tribute, The Four Lads, Lincoln Berry, The Dayton Jazz Orchestra, Louis Bellson, Buddy DeFranco, Walter Bishop Jr, Sadao Watanabe, Bobby Shew, Pete Jolly, Quad City Jazz Ensemble, Augustana College Symphonic Band, Jack Scott, Catfish Jazz Society, Intrigue-Boston Wedding Band, The Mark Herbert Little Big Band, The Pacesetters Big Band, The Ambassadors Jazz Ensemble, Pacific Showcase Big Band, Jimmy Dorsey Big Band under the direction of Lee Castle, Ronny Scott Orchestra, Big Al's Hot Dance Orchestra, The Dayton Sidewinders, Tom Daugherty Orchestra, Johnny Mack Super Big Band, Ken Peplowski, Eddie Daniels, Buddy Guy, Roy Hargrove, Warren Parrish, John OMeara Jr., Dave Holcomb, Albia Silva,Vinnie Demartino, Clon VonFitz, The G Clef's

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