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Self Defense/During the gaps as you climb the mountain of bullying and bullying, is there immense specific cherrypicking that is far more specific?


I was going to ask this as a followup too that question about bodybuilders being targeted assault by MMA fanboys, I'm so badass for knowing Bigkido, violence geeks, and other tough guy types who start shit to people who have immense physical strength but lack any proper training or experience in fighting. However AllExpert won't post a follow-up question because it states I already asked replied to it and told me to ask a new question so I'm sorry to have to post it as a new question instead of continuing my original conversation.

You mentioned about an analogy once get get out of the flatlands and climb up towards the first peak of the large mountain, you just realized that there is an even larger peak to climb. As you climb into the next peak you realize there is higher one again. As you climb the next peak and than the next peak, you realize there are so many peaks that reaching the summit will practically be imposisible in one liftime (been doing rockclimbing and I intend to climb my first mountain next Sping break ;P ).

You use this analogy of mountain for attaining a blackbelt and trying to master a martial art and you also used it for bullying; you mentioned that despite what people thinking of how growing huge muscles and learning how to fight will make bullies leave them alone, it is only in the flat lands and once you reach the first peak of the mountain, you are no longer bothered by the problems of the flatland but instead face a whole new set of hazards in the first peak; this time you have to tangle with guys who specifically target badasses (and thus tend to be even more aggressive and physically tougher) as opposed to the flatlands where you only face cowards who cherrypick small and weak guys. You ended your analogy stating that there is all sorts of violence in the various peaks of the mountain no matter how high you climb; even at the summit you still have to contend with troublemakers.

I am curious as you walk the gaps once you reach the peak of one part of a mountain (or even more specifically as you're climbing the steep slope of a part of a mountain the next peak) is there a sort of hybrid of the previous problems you faced at the previous peak and the higher peak of the superbowl of violence and bullying behaviors?

I reread your response and this question was inspired because ven though you helped me understand the topic more, technically you went beyond the question with your mountain analogy.

You specifically stated about people not only pumping up but learning how to fight and becoming genuine badasses with the toolset to survive violence and life or death situations.

My original question was talking about guys who are so physically strong but didn't know how to fight such as competitive bodybuilders and peasant farmers.

You already gave an answer that pretty much resolved my main question but since you went a bit general and didn't technically didn't answer the heady, ine rereading your response I was quite inspired to ask a whole new question about bullying and the NVL (National VIolence League that hosts the superbowl violence games XD).

The Assholes I mentioned in my examples were busy taking on people with physical strength but did not know anything about fighting (or at least these Assholes assumed so). However I noted that none of them never targeted people who not only looked fucking tough but were GENUINELY skilled fighters. To quote back the fat MT fighter got his ass handed down by the weightlifter he was harassing, prior to that event, I noticed  the MT fatso tried also to start shit with other people including some martial arts enthusiast who were obviously out of shape and other well-built athletes (not necessary bulky like the weightlifter who kicked his ass but with fit bodies none the less). I can easily recall how he was starting shit with a track and field athlete a few months prior to the weightlifter and got into a fight. He however this time kicked the track runner so easily knocking him down with an with a MT roundhouse and then elbowing him on the ground.

Like you said he totally DID NOT fight nerds nor did he ever harass nifty hot popular girls and other easy targets. However I also note another incredible selection of his targets; NOT ONCE did he ever fight anyone in the wrestling team. In fact I asked him why he never went into local MT competitions and he would make up excuses about he's so busy of this or that. In a few times a jock who was big into MMA and a blackbelt in TKD warned him to leave his fellow friends on  the football team alone, the MT fatso stopped harassing the football players who did not know martial arts online.

So basically it seemed as though he was targeting people who'd put up a bit of a challenge but he was confident he thought he could beat because either they were obviously just as out of shape as he was (or even far more unhealthier) but were not as aggressive by nature or people who were muscular and large but were not into fighting sports) such as the weightlifter who overpowered him quickly.

When I read you response, it made me think if the MT fatso guy was an example of the QUOTE problems you'll face as you climb up the slop of the first in between the flatland and the first mountain QUOTE. Because he was pretty much doing a hybrid of Assholes who start shit with genuinely tough people and Assholes who only pick on the weak, small, and socially isolated. Like the flatland problems, he was harassing people he thought he could take on into throwing the first blow but he was also like the jerks of the first mountain where he only fought people who were not completely weaker than him.

To use another example of the mountain analogy (but adding in my personal creative concepts of gaps and slopes in between the mountains), there is often a stereotype that burglars will only target homes that have poor security or have lots of variables. This is such a bizarre story but I remember an incident where a breakin happened. Here's the twist-the burglary took place in an apartment in a specific room occupied by very poor people so poor they struggle to put food on the table and they lack even basic luxuries seen as necessities in this modern world such as a computer thats newer than Windows Vista or a cellphone. I'm not lying when Is tate they were using stuff from nearly 20 years like Windows 98 and the old Super Nintendo that the household has been using since the 90s.

This specific apartment room was in the highest level of the apartment (I think the Apartment was 11 stories high). Not to mention an entire family occupied the floor so if troble comes one yell will attract 30 men to a room immediately (and this extended family was reputed in my town as a dangerous ones with most of the male adult members having done violent crimes and being in prison before and some even having affiliation with the Crips) so fucking with them in anyway is not safe. This is not even counting that the head of the family is so paranoid that he has one strong young man always staying in each room 24/7 and an extra backup guarding the doors to each room also 24/7. Some of the male members of the family who never went to jail even had CCW permits and and there was always at least 10 guys in the entire 11th story CCW permits keeping patrol and walking around the apartment complex 24/7 in the floor level.

Although this apartment was in the hoods, some of the residents in the lower levels were actually middle class or even upper middle class and owned worthy valuables like the latest TV, lots of jewelry, etc.

So theoretically the specific room would never have a burglary because not only is the entire 11th floor has so much security its suicidal to break in and even if you got the skills to, the specific rooms  was soo poor  you'd get shit just stealing the stuff inside it. There should be no reason it was buglarized because the people int he lower stories were far richer and had stuff you could sell for big cash.  Even if you're a moron who decided to rob in the 11th story, there were other rooms with far more worthy valuables.

So police were shocked that anyone would even rob that specific room. I too was shocked because I was always under the impression burglars always only choose targets that are low risk. If they choose a target that is very dangerous, it will be a home with valuables easily worth thousands of dollars or even millions.

Now I did learn in an internet search that there are criminals who also burglarized places with higher security primarily because of the huge challenge involved in addition to the big pay cash

So  weeks later after the burglar was caught later and in the newspaper he told the police in an interview that he chose that specific room even though the inhabitants were dirt poor because he though tit would be a huge challenge climbing up so high and of the dangers the extended family's gang-like nature posed. In addition he also did it because up until that point no one burglarized that specific room and he boasted proudly he "popped the cherry" of that household by stealing their worthless property. However he also stated if he was caught, he wouldn't worry about a harsh sentence;he he was even boasting he probably won't have to go to jail. Because the stuff he stole was so worthless the fines would be low and this burglary attempt was the first crime he ever did so his record is relatively clean and he had an excellent loyal.

So I thought this wasn't as unique as my friends (who thought the logic was so retarded) and it came up an example of violence you face as you are moving on the gaps or the slopes next to the next mountain. Indeed at different mountains burglars select targets for different reason; some for the challenge, some for the sadistic joy of making people suffer (in particular "stealing a household's virginity as the aforementioned burglar I mentioned above), some because of easy target, some because of cash, and so many more.

This burglar selected this target for the hybrid reasons above.

I'm going to sleep now but is there such thing as problems that you will face in mountain climbing of violence and bullying that are a hybrid of sorts that you will face at different mountain levels?

Hell I'm not even going into nearby mountain that are around the same levels (which I'll get into in a future follow-up).

Because your mountain analogy even though its a good starters sort of simplifies the whole process.

To use the blackbelt example, you may have gotten the basic blackbelt for Jujitsu. But what is ignored in how you use your analogy is that while you were climbing fromt he flatlands, your had to stop in the middle while at the  slope several times and contend with specific problems as you climbed higher and higher to your belt such as conditioning yourself to do a basic kata properly, gaining your yellow stripe, conditioning yourself to get the necessary techniques necessary to do a specific kick, strengthening your arms to have the power to break bricks, etc. Different sorts of problems that you face while one the slope climbing, that often represents a specific elements  you will face when you finally reach the top of a sort of hybrid of problems of the flatlands and first mountains.

So the gist of my question about violence and bullying you'll probably get with how I added my unique twist on the mountain analogy. Does bullying and violence sort of work this way, with hybrids you'll face as you gradually escalate and de-escalate (before actually going at the next level; IG violence level 6.7 where you haven't pushed the person yet and you're still mostly yelling at them as you would in level 6 violence but you began to taunt with gestures of hitting and you even spat on the guy thus making him more angry and at the borderline of going level 7 where he will smack your face)?

Any analogy breaks down after a certain point. Just as any model is missing parts and nuances (if it's not it's not a model, it's a full size duplicate).  As such, don't get hung up on them. Analogies and models are only tools to help you understand reality. They are not reality.

The better you get at handling bullies of all levels, the less impressive and powerful they will appear to you. That's not because their behavior has changed, but because you have. You've gained the skills to handle the small timers and the big boys require a different skill set.

Thing is it's hard to describe what that is. People who are bullies to others, I often stop from acting up with just a look and asking "Excuse me?" in a very definite tone. Now is that that the 'technique' for handling them?  No. What makes it work is what's behind my words (e.g., don't try your shit with me because I am way out of your league.) But you have to understand something that Sir Basil Liddell Hart said:

It is folly to imagine that the aggressive types, whether individuals or nations, can be bought off ... since the payment of danegeld stimulates a demand for more danegeld. But they can be curbed. Their very belief in force makes them more susceptible to the deterrent effect of a formidable opposing force.

(Danegeld = Danish Gold. The bribes to Danish vikings not to raid -- it didn't work because the price kept on going up AND other vikings started demanding it too and still raiding)

Using another analogy it's the gravity behind the words that stops someone who believes in using force with just 'words.' They know they're looking at someone who will take it further than they are comfortable with or can handle. (like the guy who doesn't mess with wrestlers).

But it's not a bluff. It's not a threat, it's a promise. That's what many people who think they can ape heavy hitters don't get. It's not the words. They really don't matter. It's communicating that you're out of this guy's league. And if he fucks with you it'll cost him more than he wants to pay.

Will it work? It depends on how good of a communicator you are and how stupid/invested he is in pushing his way through. What I can tell you is that the communication level between heavy hitters is completely different between heavy hitters AND what the minor leaguers do. It's also outside the understanding of people 'on the plain.' I mean the literally can't see it or understand it.

Conversely the higher up you get the more bullying goes away. That's because the danger goes up. If you try to bully someone they'll shoot you in the face. So that chickenshit schoolyard bullying and fighting disappears, but what replaces it is a whole different ballgame.

So learn how to handle bullies, but know that your tactics change as you progress. Most of the time the best way to handle them is let them know that while you won't mess with them, messing with you (or yours) is a mistake. But you do that without threatening them overtly. (That just spurs them on.)

But also recognize that you're going to have to be able to back it up.

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Marc MacYoung


Street self-defense, crime avoidance and personal safety


I grew up in the streets of Los Angeles in 'situational poverty.' I have dealt with criminals and violent people all my life -- both personally and professionally. I have written 15 books and 6 videos on surviving street violence. I was originally published under the name Marc Animal MacYoung. (Animal was my street name). I've taught police and military both internationally and within the US. I've lectured at universities, academies and done countless TV, radio, newspaper and magazine interviews. I'm a professional speaker on crime avoidance and personal safety. And I am an expert witness recognized by the US court system. My bio is at My abridged CV (Curriculum Vitae) is at

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Read "In the Name of Self-Defense" the streets don't give a Ph.D in scuffle.

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