Self Defense/How come girls often get their boyfriends (or guys who have a crush on them who are single) to commit violence related to relationship and flirty behavior (rather than get a STRONG OLDER figure like a father or sibling brother)?
QUESTION: Related to a much larger issue (and I even have a few life experiences to talk about).
But I notice when violence is committed to "scare stalkers" and discourage other potential suitors from chasing a girl, she always threatens interested flirty guys that she'll get her boyfriend to beat up any one flirting and indeed she'll even go as far as actually even plan with her boyfriend on the details before the assault (such as finding out where the most recent interested flirt lives so the boyfriend can break in and beat him up or even perform unwanton vandalism such as arson).
Now I know these girls are BITCHES who are not above lying and manipulating and the like, but this brings an interesting question.
Even if such a girl is single and not in a relationship, I notice they GET other guys they who they know had a crush on them on a longer period of time and ATTEMPT to convince them to beat up the next interested set of flirters. The most rather HILARIOUS PART? The guy who they get to commit such acts, they PREVIOUSLY REJECTED them and even may have slapped them or even get a boyfriend they had at another time to threaten or beat them!
One big thing I notice in all cases is that even if their boyfriend or interested guy are PHYSICALLY WEAK (as in frail skinny nerdy body that won't last 1 mile running or even lift 5 pounds), they still get their BF or interested admirer to BEAT UP the other new sets of admirer-GUESS WHAT- EVEN if those new admirers ARE PHYSICALLY STRONG and MUSCLEBOUND tough guys (the sorts guys into dangerous stuff like motorcycling, skateboarding, MMA, boxing, football, etc) and are guaranteed to put their boyfriend or moronic admirer into the ICU if said target loses control and goes all out.
Now one thing I can't understand is why rarely are TRULY STRONG and patriarch figures rarely brought in to handle the problem. I mean an older authority figure who is at fatherly age is more often enough to fend off attempts from flirters and often these same authority figures actually have both the life experience and necessary resources (namely emotional wisdom and physical strength) than your typical idiotic boyfriend or even more dumbass interested suitor. I mean a father or older brother or even mother is even far more reliable means of taking legal actions (and handling it in court if its goes that far) than your typical boyfriend or admirer (both types often too immature and sheltered the realities of the court to get away with physical violence).
How come in violence related to relationships and to horny young men, many girls have to specifically get their boyfriend or an interested admirer to do violence? Is there any biological or symbolic motivation behind this? Is it due to sexual instincts and symbolism? I mean these same girls would call to their fathers first if they were getting bullied by other girls or to the police if they have just been mugged. I don't see any girl even asking their boyfriends to chase down the guy robber who just snatched their purse yesterday (even if they know his identity) or the punk who threw food at her in the cafeteria. So I don't get why they have to specifically choose a boyfriend or interested man if they are willing to use other people to handle their other problems.
ANSWER: Start with truly effective patriarchal/matriarchal figures have the responsibility to the whole clan. Not to just one child.
Recognize that most cultures/socio-economic levels where this would be normal have some very important checks and balances about violence. Starting with that in places where this is the norm, the cops are ineffective or corrupt. So groups(families)have to enforce their own standing in the community (e.g., don't mess with these people, they'll bury you.)
Having said this there are all kinds of rules and limits. You go to a family head and ask for this and something the patriarch or matriarch will think of is "Will this start a blood feud with this other family?" That is a life and death question for one's family members.
And do NOT think it's just the patriarch. In a lot of families it's a matriarch. She'll send goons after you faster than a man. (The drug wars of Miami in the early '80s were run by the Cocaine Godmother Griselda Blanco a.k.a. The Black Widow.) If the family gives the stamp of approval EVERYONE will back the play (It's a horribly inaccurate movie, but "Next of Kin" has a scene where the Hillbilly women are packing food while the menfolk are preparing to go to Chicago to take on the mob).
But then there comes another consideration, older family members have absolutely NO problem looking at the young woman and saying "You stupid shit, what the hell were you thinking?" You can scream victim blaming all you want, but we're talking about sending family members out to die or to go to prison -- all to avenge the wrong done to the young woman. So NOBODY is going to get a free pass when it comes to things that can get your family members into bigger trouble than what she got herself into.
Here is where you get into scaling force. If the patriarch decides there was some culpability on her part, he might just order the guy beat up and his legs broken instead of killing him. This might not cause a war. If it was bad enough, the dude will be murdered. Then again if the woman is a complete fuck-up the family might just shrug and say "you idiot" and do nothing more than a pro-forma "Stay away from her" to the guy.
Remember we're talking about family members going down if shit explodes. So the harm done to the woman must be deemed bad enough that the risk of prison or death to your own family is sufficient.
Which brings us to something Ruby Payne earned me buying her a cup of coffee if I ever meet her. In "A Framework for Understanding Poverty" she talks about in lower economic levels sex is considered a barterable commodity.
This especially when it comes to getting services. A single woman with car trouble but without family members who knows how to fix it and a cute mechanical skilled guy? Guess who's going to get laid for working on her car? This idea will send the politically correct, college-educated, middle class types through the roof, but it's a fact of life for large parts of the world. And they see nothing wrong with it -- including the women doing it. It's NOT prostitution, it's trading favors.
Really important thing to consider here is unless you're in some place where the family trees don't have any forks, bartering sex with your kin-folk isn't done.
Which brings us to what I refer to as PFBs (Poisonous Fuck Bunnies). The PFB speech is what I am routinely called upon by friends and kinsmen to deliver to their coming of age sons. In essence it's "There's a certain kind of woman you need to run screaming from -- and I don't care HOW GOOD AND WILD THE SEX IS!!!!" This avoids awkward questions. (There's a pass on "Listen to your Uncle Animal" vs. "Dad, how do you know about PFBs?)
See there's something REALLY important to understand about this toxic kind of person. That is you are expendable.
This is not a family member she's sending off to either prison or slaughter it's just some guy who is thinking with his dick instead of his brain. The absolute most stupid are the guys who work on spec.
I cannot tell you the number of young men I have had to grab by the scruff of the neck, slam them into the wall and hiss, "Are you getting your dick sucked?" When they answer no -- which a lot of them do. I snarl "Then why are you risking prison or getting killed for the promise of a blowjob? You do this and get caught, she's going to squeal she didn't set you after the dude and you -- NOT HER -- are going to be left holding the bag!"
I did some checking and between 11 violence professional they'd been approached 68 times by women to kill husbands. The payment forms were always one of or a combo of, three things: Sex, Insurance pay off, Running away with her. (Again usually on spec -- although the idea of running off with a woman who had her husband killed jes' don't sound smart a'tall.) That's a mean (not an average) of 6.18 each of murders they'd been asked to commit for Black Widows. Now unlike what you're asking about, these were not offended teenagers, these where older -- and supposedly more mature -- women.
Violence by proxy is way more common than people want to admit. In 2010 44% of homicides they don't know the relationship Which is unusually high -- unless they started using different compilation means. Ordinarily the distinction between stranger and unknown is made. This looks like they rolled them together. Which given what we're talking about makes sense
We tend to think it is common among organized crime and upper tier gangs to have murder by proxy. This is true. What also is true it is not uncommon for women from certain subcultures, mindsets and social classes to use torpedoes rather than commit the violence themselves.
Now mind you the reason this flies under the radar of most folks is it takes a special kind of stupid to fall for this. Starting with you won't be approached if you're not young, dumb, full'a cum and aggressive (or a violence professional). The PFBs specifically target these expendables.
So you're asking about why these kind of women approach other men instead of family members? Here's a more important answer to an unasked question. What should you do? Run screaming from this kind of woman.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: OK you cleared a lot of things I wanted to ask.
But I should have clarified I didn't just mean patriarchal figures but I meant authority figures in general such as police, teachers, moms,etc.
I just used father and elder brother because these are who are associated with solving problems and who young girls are stereotypical portrayed as going to for help if guys are giving problems to (at least in Middle Class North America).
So I found it rather headscratching why girls would quickly report to a teacher if some guy stole her lunch or ask a mom for help if she is being bullied by other girls. BUT she tends to ask a horny young guy (specifically her BF if she has one) to commit violence against flirty guys).
Don't get me wrong, I don't have problems with PFBs but I have observed classmates and other peers my age deal with girls who fit the PFB criteria and hence the questions.
I have a question about PFBs. I agree with your criteria for the morons who fall for PFBs and do their biddings but I disagree that "dumb" (at least as middle class America associate with the term) and "aggressive or violent" are the young types who do PFBs favors.
I can't tell how how many well-behaved young men (some even high grade students) suddenly change when they crush on a girl oge ta GF and are willing to commit violent acts (and even just criminal acts in general) for a girl.
Before they ever even found a girl they crushed on, some of these guys are so well-behaved and sweet that the local neighborhood held a strong positive opinion of (and some of these guys were even on their way to getting scholarships). SO the fact they did violence shocks so many people including me (as I had friends who went to jail and got their futures destroyed because of PFBs).
So I disagree. Or do you have a different meaning for dumb and aggressive?
I actually have a lot more questions to ask but I'm on a rush more later!
The first part of this issue is 'violence' by proxy. Truth is yes, people who perceive themselves as 'weak' often use the force, authority and intimidation of others to achieve their goals. But then again so do people who perceive themselves as powerful because it distances them from the negative effects if things go wrong (e.g., instead of throwing a homeless person off their property, affluent homeowners our businesses people call the cops to do the dirty work.)
There is a strong biological and psychological relationship between sex and violence. But there's also all kinds of psychology involved, so past Bob punched Joe, things get really complicated. But it's pretty simple to figure girl dealing with flirty guy to call another guy instead of an authority figure -- it's learning how to wield that power.
Years ago a guy named Alan Sherman wrote "Rape of the Ape" (American Puritan Ethic). It had one point that I always loved because it's one of the most overlooked aspects in this culture about sex and power. Summed up, every morning a woman, no matter how ugly, out of shape, etc., gets up knowing that somewhere there's a guy who will do her. Every morning a guy gets up knowing that he may never get laid again in his life.
Young men are easy to manipulate sexually because of this.
As for the rest, you're splitting hairs. Use what terms and words work best for you