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  • Do successful physically attractive womanizers and pickup artists ever get into trouble with PFBs and other scary troubling (often violent) women? How come Casanova guides and PUA gurus never touch this potential problem?

Self Defense/Do successful physically attractive womanizers and pickup artists ever get into trouble with PFBs and other scary troubling (often violent) women? How come Casanova guides and PUA gurus never touch this potential problem?

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QUESTION: You often state in your youth you were the HOT guy who could easily lure women into bed and get many chicks to fall for you. However you also touched upon what you call "Poisonous Fuck Bunnies" in a few of your website's articles and you even write about the potential dangers with getting involved with emotional women with mental issues (even if they are genuinely nice girls who aren't anyway a PFB) as well as dangers guys may face when dating.

So I'll cut to the chase. When I was younger, I always marveled about how sexy men in cinema such as James Bond could get ANY girl from a nerdy bookworm to a sexy busty playboy chick to fall in love with them and fuck with them anytime they want. In fact in the case of James Bond, I even remember GoldFinger went as far as making him seduce a Lesbian and turned her straight. James is just one example of so many movie Casanovas and everytime I watched them I wished to emulate their sexual prowress.

Recently I read a book called the Bullet Train by Nick Savoy which is a guide about how to get women and explains many things from female psychology to how to dress properly,etc. So I tried to do the moves int he book recently at a girl I frequently see in the grocery and to my SHOCK not only did I get rejected but just a few minutes later when I was leaving the store a guy suddenly approached me out of nowhere a big guy punched me. I was like WTF and you can guess the conversation. I learned he was the girl's boyfriend and I'm the guy who's been touching her vagina frequently in her working hours. I told him I never even talked to her before and in my attempts to hit on her she rejected me and I simply left. However the guy just kept punching me until some police came and pinned him putting handcuffs. During the police questioning, I saw the cashier girl and she gave me a look of "sadistic satisfaction" with a certain smile on her face.

Seriously this rocked my world because not only did the stuff Savoy (who is a bestselling author in dating genre and a famed winner in what is called the "PUA" community)  advice did not work but I just got a black eye for "stalking" a woman who I never met and quickly respected her space and left after she rejected me. I did not intend to chase her afterwards and even expected to go leave elsewhere under the impression I simply chose an outlier and Savoy's advice would probably work on another chick.

I learned shortly afterwards the guy was her boyfriend and and the police had records that the girl is a compulsive liar who committed other crimes and is responsible for some preventable disasters in the past simply because she manipulated the situation. Also this wasn't the first time the police had to deal with her multiple aggressive boyfriends and this guy was just the latest idiot to fall for her lies.

So after this experience, I started to try to learn about it and self defense  and came across your site. Upon learning the PFB term, I researched it and came across another question (IN THIS SITE) you answered months ago where you explained more about what a PFB is and expendable men. I was pretty shocked that what I experienced was not just a one-freak incident but far more common than I thought with what you said in that post and with further research. I still however believed I just was't "SEXY ENOUGH" and haven't refined my techniques. But as I read more through NNSD and other posts you made online, you said you were a womanizer in your youth and one problem you had was getting entangled with women who were already in relationships, in some cases even married, and you got into violence as a result.

So I seriously need your advice. I still have my copy of Bullet Train but I'm now hesitant about buying "how to be a James Bond" style books and getting involved in the PUA community after the incident and reading your writings.

You're probably the first "womanizer" who I ever came upon who had problems with the PFB style woman and also with women with psychological issues as I seen in other posts you made. Aside from Savoy, all other self-proclaimed womanizers and gurus of the PUA club never EVER warn about the possibility of experiencing what I got at the grocery store for flirting and pop media portrays James Bondesque figures as being so skilled with women and sexy that even a career criminal chick would give up their ways or at least spare him from her dangerous activities (as seen in Basic Instinct where Sharon Stone's psycopathic beauty massacred an entire building but fell in love with Michael Douglas's hunky police detective and thus spared him; just far earlier in the movie, Douglas was shown to be so charmy he lured a lovely brunette into a sex scene so he's implied to be a womanizer).

I have never seen a successful genuinely charming and physically sexy casanova archetype in fiction get into the troubles from interacting with a PFB (like the beating I got at the grocery) or an emotional psychologically unstable woman (like getting stalked which I just witnessed in the news recently happen to a football player who is reputed as a sex symbol in his college). However I have noted that  males who try to act Casanova but lack any physical sexiness or genuine charm and smooth talk are often shown as getting beaten up for getting involved with PFBesque women or getting chased aggressively by ugly psycho plain looking girls.

I know this isn't self defense but I'm so psychologically scarred by the experience and don't want to experience violence again for harmless flirty behavior. At the same time I still want to try out the Bullet Train's advice and I am so convinced by one of my friends (who has a  hot girlfriend and has banged some chicks before) about the success of Savoy and other PUA systems that I want to order more books and even pros in person for lessons. I am anxious to know if assuming one day I suddenly wake up with Brad Pitt's hot body and have the talking skills of Giacomo Girolamo Casanova, will I still have to worry about PFB and such kinds of women?


I really want to know the perspective of someone who's been so involved with violence while also having been successful with the hot girls and meeting some PFBs and unstable violent women! Because I am practically disturbed even the original real life Giacomo Casanova never mentions getting beaten up by an man for (unknowingly) flirting with his girlfriend or worry about being stabbed at night by a jealous mistress. Despite being so ugly and even dirt poor at moments in his life.

ANSWER: Every year we do what is called a violence dynamics seminar in Minnesota. Part of it was to go to Mall of America to do some field work. After a week of dealing with busting heads and legal consequences, I decided I was sick of the topic. So I decided to instead teach people how to do cold reads on people. That is to say, take a look at folks and on observed behavior, tell me about them.  It was a very popular class.

But what struck me was, something as simple to me as breathing was like magic to other people.

Decades ago, when hotels would only rent to married couples and while reading up on body language, I read a comment by a desk clerk about how he could always tell if a couple really was married or having an affair. He could tell by how well they moved together.  If you know about it, it's a simple thing to look for and it stands out. Married couples are practiced to moving together in coordinated teams -- especially around each other.

That started me looking at other behaviors (especially flirting behaviors)and I ran across the works of Desmond Morris and a book called "Manwatching." That book literally changed my life. In the process of reading his other works I ran across what he called the Bonding Process. (I write about it here in the context of rape  http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/bonding_process.html )
A big part of my success with women is that I learned from this, that the woman controls the process. That simple idea was a game changer.

As in if she ain't sending interested signals, don't even bother to approach.

There are a 100 women, 90 of them aren't interested so no matter how interested in them you are, focus your efforts on the 10. That's where paydirt is.

My fundamental problem with -- and I suspect you ran afoul of it -- is that I find the PUA approach to be upside down.  You learn how to pick up women and body language is a part of that. Me I approach it as you learn general people skills, body language and swimming in the social waters first -- and picking up women is a side benefit. Unfortunately, the PUA approach is often a very selfish one. It's taking what is actually an important life skill and only focusing on getting your dick wet.  That leaves you exposed to some other problems, like getting punched out.

You saw a hottie, decided to try your luck and didn't see the 'not open for business signals' -- that's why you got punched. You had just enough information from the PUA approach, to get into trouble. What you lacked was general people skills, body language and swimming in the social waters -- including how not to get punched.

Expand your horizon about learning how to successfully deal with people beyond just getting laid. Learn to look and you will be able to tell at a glance if a woman is looking or off limits.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: So in other words are you saying even the "SEXIEST" men alive like Brad Pitt and the most suavy charmers of the world  a la James Bond and Giacomo Casanova men ONLY get the attention few percentage of woman out there in the world?

So no matter  what if say James Bond tried his luck out on the cashier girl I attempted on, he would likely have to fight off the idiot who hit me?

I am just curious because as I mentioned Casanova never ever mentioned in his diaries having to fight in self defense against an Ex boyfriend or about dealing with a manipulative greedy gold digger or clingy attractive woman. This is a man who FUCKED married woman, BROKE the heart of thousands across Europe who genuinely LOVED him, and even had sex with multiple woman at one point in time  hidden in the eyes of a woman in an affair with him.

So all the girls who are often shown on TV news and Newspaper screaming for Tom Cruise and waiting in line to get an autograph from David Beckham  are only 10% of their total female fandom?

Its not just the PUA approach but so many young men have the notion to that Hollywood movie star goodlooks and charm and smooth talk are all it is to get a random girl we never met and I firmly held this belief until the grocery incident. Even without PUA sending their advice, I cannot tell you how many times guys I knew tried to copy James Bond and tried to use makeup to look like BRad Pitt level and ye rejected so hard for a boring slobby guy. I thought for years we were merely doing the smooth talk part wrong and we weren't grooming ourselves properly in he way Brad Pi did to get girls. Sorry to be redundant but you're saying even the SEXIEST men who ever lived who were reputed as charming and bang hotties all the time only got 10% of the female population? I'm just so shocked at the notion because of  how mass media portrays "SEXY" as "GETTING ALL".

A few related question that does not address the topic directly. One of the things I always wondered is why some girls would allow their men to flirt with some women in public but in other cases the same women would get pissed when they see their men interacting with a  certain other  girls. In some cases the men didn't even speak  a word and touch the girls, he just glanced a look at them and while being faithful with his wife or girlfriend, they suddenly loose it and start yelling at him. Despite the fact earlier with the other girls they thought it was a game he was flirting around.

In addition I cannot tell you how many guys get assaulted by a girl's brother despite the fact they never intended to flirt and were talking about nonsexual topics. Some of them even genuine long time friends with the little sis.

So in these incidents, its bodily signals that lead into trouble (despite for example in the second case some of them didn't even care about getting the girl and were genuinely discussing nonromantic topics)?

I am curious if you ever encountered young guys who got beaten up for "flirty behavior" even though that was never their intent because of sending the "wrong bodily signals" even though they are 0% interested in the girl?

I never thought of this last question until now after reading your response. Pop media and PUAs never emphasize the importance of sending the wrong signals that may be interpreted as flirty (even if you neither intend to flirt nor are you even interested in the chick) and I always thought it was mere badluck they came across a possessive douchebag brother  or abusive non-romantic bestfriend but you're making me reconsider the beliefs I once held.

Answer
You are asking all kinds of questions that you have absolutely no frame of reference to understand the answer to. And by that I mean really understand, instead of just putting it in terms you are now thinking and call it an answer.

Have you read "Manwatching" yet? Have you gone to the internet and searched any of the Desmond Morris shows about how humans behave? (The Human Animal or Human Sexes) This stuff goes way, WAY deeper than your questions.

Yes, I've seen violence occur because someone was just talking to the bonded female of an insecure guy. I've also seen it happen because a guy who the woman wasn't interested in gets bend out of shape that she's talking to someone else and shit starts. I've also encountered LBBs (Low brow breeders) who test their male's loyalty to her by flirting with guys knowing that a fight will break out.  But that's actually a different subject than how humans hook up

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Marc MacYoung

Expertise

Street self-defense, crime avoidance and personal safety

Experience

I grew up in the streets of Los Angeles in 'situational poverty.' I have dealt with criminals and violent people all my life -- both personally and professionally. I have written 15 books and 6 videos on surviving street violence. I was originally published under the name Marc Animal MacYoung. (Animal was my street name). I've taught police and military both internationally and within the US. I've lectured at universities, academies and done countless TV, radio, newspaper and magazine interviews. I'm a professional speaker on crime avoidance and personal safety. And I am an expert witness recognized by the US court system. My bio is at www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/marcmacyoung.html My abridged CV (Curriculum Vitae) is at http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/seminarEW.htm

Organizations
See CV

Publications
Too numerous to list here. My CV (for my expert witness work in court) is at http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/seminarEW.htm

Education/Credentials
Read "In the Name of Self-Defense" the streets don't give a Ph.D in scuffle.

Awards and Honors
See CV

Past/Present Clients
See CV

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