Self Defense/Guys who "fight" to defend a girl vs Guy who genuinely is concerned for beloved females' safety-Is there a BIG DIFFERENCE?
This is a super complex question. But one thing I notice (and indeed its EXACTLY why BYSTANDER INTERVENTION fails)....
In fact I couldn't find a good way to word my header question properly without making it too long so hence the silly header.
Some flirty guy decides to tart touching a pretty girls' hair. A nerby guy (who's a close friend or often even a boyfriend) tries to tell that guy to stop.
BUT he ends up hitting the guy as first resort and instead of mering stopping the guy.......
1) HE GETS ARRESTED by the cops.
2) He gets his ASS KICKED hard by the other guy (wo was only being playful.
3)He gets STABBED or SHOT by the flirty guy and ends up in ICU or even dead.
Now I have to note whenever I see incidents where any of the three above happens, the guys involved are often YOUNG Jock-like personality often with muscular bodies.
More often than not they are often rowdy guys who hang out with idiot trouble makers.
In fact they seem more often than not they are simply looking for an excuse to "test out their super strong big biceps" and their "killer kung fu/RBSD/Combatives/Boxing and MMA skills/INSERT Whatever". Where did I come up with this conclusion?
I'll be outright the first to admit before I used to believe the law was full of BS when cops arrested a guy for beating up another pervert who tried to touch their girlfriend. In fact I always thought these guys were justified in "defending their girls" and were engaging in self defense to prevent sexual assault on a girl they QUOTE "LOVE".
Until quite recently I witnessed a two Mexican kids at the arcades. During this time (sometime this year, just a few months ago) there was a red scare about pedophiles and rapists and perverts of all sorts going around town and assaulting girls, if not outright raping them and than murdering them.
I didn't have a sister nor was I really close to a girlfriend and all the girls I knew were just acquaintances so I didn't really care a fuck.
But I observed these Mexican kids and the brother came off as a loveable "big fun person". In fact he' lacks the "masculinity" and "tough guy attitude" that many of the jocks and young guys I mention who get arrested in stories for "self defense" when protecting their GFs from sexual harrassments. He was not masculine at all, being average looking in build.
So when some weird bald guy started coming and approaching the Chicanos, I saw a change in expression in the Mexican kids face. Like he somehow "saw a monster" in Mr. Baldy. In an instant dragged her sister back like 5 or 6 feet away, putting himself in front of her. In fact after he sent her sister over 5 feet away and positioned himself in front of her, he was literally doing some "weird movement" where his sister was being pushed backwards inch by inch while his hand was grasping hers. And along with that, he was alos sliding backwards gradually putting more and more feet away within seconds.
It was really weird to see BUT to my eyes IT LOOKED LIKE as though he was committing a DISCIPLINED MILITARY MANEUVER. Like he's doing some evasive movement in which he would have counterattacked if enemy infantry was about to enter and pursue. At the same time it looked like his body was hardening and getting firmer. And his sister and he was whispering in his sister'ears.
The bald guy was already like 15-20 feet away but he then began to approach. In an instant I saw the MExican kid put his hand in one of his pockets and a SCARY DISTURBING GLARE went on his face. He squeezed his sister's hand with his free hand, let go, and began to do some "movement" with his freehands as though he was communicating with her. In fact its at that moment I finally saw from his hand in his pocket (I was watching from behind) that there was a SWITCH BLADE knife and his thumb looked like he was about to press it.
THe Bald guy was about to step another feet and the Mexican boy's stare became SCARIER and SCARIER and his body was going into some hard stance. His sister began to step backwards even more, observing his brother as if waiting for a signal to run.
In an instant I saw the bald guy's face look terrified like "WTF I pissed a monster off" and he fled the scene.
Now I wasn't there to witness it but in another area in the mall, about an hour or two later a fight broke out. I was so shocked to learn the bald guy was one of the participant. The other guy was a young college kid who wore a shirt with the local university's logo and mascot on it. From what I heard from the bystanders who witnessed it and later in the newspaper when they printed the story, the bald guy was simply approaching forward. The college student and his girlfriend were simply going about his business thinking everywhere was safe. Suddenly the bald guy grabbed the GF's boobs and touched her in the vagina. The college guy out of anger told the bald guy he shouldn't have done that. He began to holler at baldy calling him a pervert pussy who only picks on girls but has no guts to fight a real man like himself (mr. College student). Suddenly as baldy looked at College guy VERY PISSED off. He spat on Mr. College. In turn College student pushed him away, and began to punch baldy. However Baldy fought back, tackled him to the ground, and the college guy was literally slammed so hard he looked like he was sufferring from backpain. Baldy proceeded to beat his face bruised but college punched back and was able to get Baldy off. College than started kicking baldy but baldy got up and blows where exchanged.
Mall security stopped the fight and later both guys were charged for assault. In the newspaper, it was revealed Baldy had sexual harassment filling up his criminal record and there are at least two rape allegations (which he got off because of lack of evidence). He got punched at least once by an angry dad for touching his daughter's but.
Now I was literally freaked out because this day was WEIRD as FUCK.
However I came across your website and this article came into my particular interest.
This part specifically.
"So much for the idea of holding off a gang of attackers because your family can't flee. Because when you go down, they'll get to your family. Both more realistic results come from you and them standing there. Far, far better that they do a quick withdrawal with you maintaining a rearguard action, instead of trying to stay and fight."
Also this AllExpert response you gave also opened my eyes.
TOO Many specific things to quote.
But those two links just made me REALIZE what I witnessed the Mexican boy did was a MANEUVER he did to PROTECT his sister and along with the rest of your website and other writings online, those two links made me realize the difference between SELF DEFENSE and FIGHTING.
More to the point, it made me question the claims of "young guys defending their girlfriend from other guys" as genuine self defense or is it an excuse to fight?
I will post more recent events I witnessed. But I am curious if my recent witnessing of events and how your website made me reconsider my long standing beliefs-
WOULD a GUY who is genuinely interested in protecting a female he love so much ACT in a WAAAAYYY different manner from many of those incidents where guys go to prison because they were defending their girlfriends?
I mean I could not see it at the time but I just realized the Mexcian kid as easygoing as he was, was paying attention to his surroundings and he probably saw some subtle facial expression or something on Baldy that made him sniff that he was up to no good. More importantly, the steps he took rather than throwing the first blow (like many young guys who hit a pervert immediately when touching their girls on a date o shortly after seeing their huffing and yelling at the pervert didn't scare him nor make him remorseful) to prevent his sister from being touched. He dragged her to be several feet away, he went in front of her, and he gave her instructions. At the last minute, he began to hardened his body and go into fighting stance (which at the time looked like a goofy thing;I didn't realize its he just went into a stance designed for knife fighting),and when he put his hand in his pocket he was ready to commit lethal force to prevent possible kidnapping and rape of his sister.
This kid was not even a teen, he looked 11 or 12 BUT he SCARED the fuck of the Bald guy to run away elsewhere. And I could see his sister was waiting to see the outcome at the time (even though I didn't realize she was getting ready to run away if his brother did pull off the knife to fight off the rapist).
Contrast this witht he college guy later who LET the pervert get too close to touch his GF, began yelling insults about how dirty and cowardly the pervert was (and inspire a nasty reaction from the pervert-spit at the college kid), and threw the first blow.
Even though the college kid was in jail, later he was praised by his friends and girls at his dorm and specific apartment complex he lived in as HEROIC when he came back and the jock was bragging about how he saved his GF from rape-fuck even his GF grew to openly "love him" even far more because of his "badass heroic" action. The college guy spoke to his close friends in private saying he glad he got that fight because his GF now "LOVES" him even far more and it was worth the jail time.
I'm still new at this self defense thing but can you give your input? Were the actions the Mexican kid did GENUINE SELF DEFENSE? While the college kid's scuffle was FLAT OUT an illegal fight that you often mention in your site?
To repeat the main question would genuinely trying to defend say your mom or little sis from a dangerous large rapist entail FAR DIFFERENT ACTION from trying to look for an excuse to fight off a guy? Do most "self defense" that young guys (especially jocks) do is simply in reality fighting to impress the girl he's with?
You're, in fact, asking a damned good question. The problem is the way you're asking it is still framed by misconceptions, myths and misinformation.
Here's your question: To repeat the main question would genuinely trying to defend say your mom or little sis from a dangerous large rapist entail FAR DIFFERENT ACTION from trying to look for an excuse to fight off a guy? Do most "self defense" that young guys (especially jocks) do is simply in reality fighting to impress the girl he's with?
The short answer is yes.
But that's because the nature of the situation is completely different. But let me add another layer. That's IF that's what is actually happening.
See most sexual predators don't operate in public.
They lure, trick or attack their target of choice in private. They get them into places where there is no one there to help them. Hence, although word was out about a predator in the area, the Mexican was -- most likely -- targeting the wrong guy. But was he going to fight him? Hell no. He'd have taken the dude out ... and gone to prison for it.
This, in contrast, to the fighters -- who are indeed looking for an excuse to fight. Or to be more specific, target people to beat up. See Jock-types are often not looking for a challenging fight, but to kick someone's ass. Which once again you'll find is a different thing all together.
You're seriously onto some important stuff here. Keep on looking and watching, you'll start to see the differences that most people don't know exist. (Partly because so-called experts are telling them bad information.) Look, watch, ask, and don't jump to conclusions until something is all the way over. But most of all, trust your eyes. Look for things that don't fit the 'self-defense' narrative so loudly touted by self-defense experts.