AboutTom Norris Expertise I can answer most any question about church history and theology, starting from 1818 when William Miller articulated the 1st Angels Message that became the foundation of the Adventist Movement. While this first prophetic message terminated in the spring of 1844, it was followed by what Adventists refer to as the 2nd Angels Message, which dates from the spring of 1844 until the great disappointment of October 22, 1844. By 1847, the 3rd Angels Message had been developed and this Sabbatarian theology represents the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
Moreover, I can explain the historical and theological development of the SDA denomination from its beginning and on through the great Battle Creek schism that forced the SDA's to retreat to Takoma Park. Here the 20th century church recovered from their internal battles that had erupted at the 1888 General Conference in Minneapolis over the definition of the law and the Gospel.
Fearing another repeat of this disaster, President Daniels, determined to hide this debate. However, this policy led to more conflict, especially over the role and authority of Ellen White, a unique and accomplished religious writer that had remarkable spiritual gifts. However, by the decade of the 1970`s, the church once again erupted into debate. The hierarchy settled the turmoil in 1980 with the trial of Dr. Desmond Ford at Glacier View. Here Dr. Ford was exiled because he supposedly disagreed with Ellen White over the Fundamentals. But this controversial action resulted in another major schism that is still in progress today.
Experience Tom Norris was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist in Takoma Park, Md. He attended SDA grade and High schools, moving on to study Adventist theology at Columbia Union College. He also spent significant time conducting independent research in the General Conference Archives and the Ellen G. White Estate. Over the years he has also interviewed a number of prominent Adventist scholars, theologians, and Pastors ranging from the late Arthur White to the exiled Dr. Desmond Ford. In addition, he has amassed a large private library, which includes numerous rare books and manuscripts about Adventist theology and history. He is presently the online editor of Adventist Reform, and can be found at Adventist for Tomorrow answering questions online about SDA theology and history as well as promoting Adventist Reform.
Question I’m searching for a certain denomination and was hoping that by contacting you, you could help me in my search. This denomination or church will need to have God’s law, the Ten Commandments, and the second coming of Jesus as the basis for their beliefs.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Jesus write the following Ten Commandments with His own finger and give them to Moses and the Children of Israel?
1) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5) Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6) Thou shalt not kill.
7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8) Thou shalt not steal.
9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's
Some people have mentioned to me that this is the Jewish Law and does not apply to Christians in general. What do you think? After creating the first man and woman, Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath holy with Jesus. Adam and Eve were not Jewish. Do you think that God was only applying these Ten Commandments to one certain group of people or to all people?
I have found in Genesis that when God created the earth, He created something on every day and then on the seventh day, He created the Sabbath. Also found that Jesus worshiped on His Sabbath day. His disciples worshiped on the Sabbath day. John 14:15 says “If you love me, keep my commandments”. Revelation 14:12 says, “Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus”. It seems to me that these two texts, which both are found in the New Testament, point back to the law, the Ten Commandments, which God gave to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai. God did not just give these Ten Commandments to the Jews, but to the whole world.
I understand that Jesus was raised from the grave on the first day of the week. This event, in itself, is very important and has great meaning to the salvation of mankind, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day because of His resurrection. Matthew 5:18 says “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”.
When God made the Sabbath on the seventh day, He blessed and hallowed it (to make holy). As I see in the Scriptures, nowhere does God bless and hallow the first day of the week because of His resurrection. As I can see, the disciples were meeting on the first day of the week sometimes just like we meet in church in the middle of the week for prayer meeting.
Man has no right to change God’s commandment’s to meet his/her needs or wants. God is infinite and eternal. Man is sinful and mortal. It seems like the Sabbath has been changed by man and not by God. Why should a God who “changes not” change His own commandments. Is it better to obey God or to obey man?
Why do most denominations, Baptists included, worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, and not on Saturday, the seventh day of the week which God has pointed out as the Sabbath?
God wrote His commandment’s in stone so that man would know that they do not change just as God Himself does not change.
Why does it seem like that the only commandment that people don’t keep is the one that starts with the word “Remember”?
I’ve seen other versions of the fourth commandment which only say, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy”. Man changes it to fit his needs. The full text is as above and was given by God Himself. The text points out that the seventh day is the Sabbath.
A person told me once, who really knows what day is the seventh day. God made the seven day week and I believe that He has kept a meticulous eye on the days of the week and that Saturday, the seventh day, is the Sabbath.
Do you worship on the Bible Sabbath? If not, I would like to ask why not and do you think that the Ten Commandments, God’s Law, are still prevalent today.
I am again looking for a church that worships God and follows all Ten Commandments. I would like to have your input in this matter.
Sincerely,
Craig E. Latham
Answer Craig Latham asked: I am searching for a certain denomination and was hoping that by contacting you, you could help me in my search. This denomination or church will need to have God’s law, the Ten Commandments, and the second coming of Jesus as the basis for their beliefs.
Tom Norris answered: Why are you searching for such a strange church? There is no salvation or peace to be found in the law. Why do you seek that which will condemn you?
It sounds like you have described the SDA church, as they are infamous for promoting the 10 Commandments. They also, at one time, focused on the Second Coming. So I have no doubt that you are an SDA and that you are trying to promote what they teach and defend their many false doctrines.
But there is a big problem with your hypothetical search. The church is not meant to preach the law, but the Gospel. Jesus is not Moses, but someone much greater. Nor is Eternal life granted on the basis of obedience to the law or Sanctification.
Jesus did not set up the church and command it to preach the law did he? No. The church is supposed to understand, embrace, and preach the Gospel.
Matt. 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
The SDA’s do not embrace the Protestant Gospel, but they do focus on the Moral law and claim that Sanctification is salvific. They embrace many Old Covenant doctrines like tithe and the Sabbath of the Pharisees, even as they pretend to be interested in the Second Coming, warning all to obey the Sabbath or be condemned.
So if you want to find a church that does NOT understand the Gospel, the Sabbath, or eschatology correctly, then the SDA’s are what you are looking for!
But understand that they are very much like the Judaizers that fought so hard against Paul’s Gospel. They are enemies of the Gospel, even as the book of Galatians is beyond their understanding.
In fact, the SDA’s are very much like Peter and James in the book of Galatians. They too misunderstood both the law and the Gospel. Thus the SDA’s are to be cursed for their many Gospel distortions and their misunderstanding about the law and the Judgment.
Gal. 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal. 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal. 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal. 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
In spite of many that have protested and tried to correct them, the SDA’s have deliberately and repeatedly embraced a false Gospel. They are not interested in doctrinal truth but Empire building, doctrinal manipulation and mind control. They are a cult, and will remain such until they repent and reform. There is no salvation, love, or Eternal Life in the SDA church, so why are you looking for such a useless church?
Moreover, they do not understand the Bible as they claim, nor do they want to follow the teachings of Jesus or the apostles about the Sabbath or anything else. They have gone their own way, making up their own doctrines and traditions, just like the Jews and the Papists.
2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
2Cor. 3:15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
2Cor. 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
2Cor. 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
2Cor. 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
So you are searching for the wrong doctrines, and the wrong church, even as you have a false view of how to define law and the Gospel.
The church is first and foremost about the Gospel, not the law, and until the SDA’s understand this theological fact, they will continue to self-destruct in chaos and embarrassment.
Craig Latham said: Please correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Jesus write the following Ten Commandments with His own finger and give them to Moses and the Children of Israel?
Tom Norris said: Do not confuse God the Father, with Jesus his Son. Or confuse the law with the Gospel. They are very different paradigms. The SDA’s have NEVER been able to understand the difference between the Old and New Covenants, and it is obvious that you are also very confused.
Do not think that Jesus came to save us with the law. No. He came to save us with the Gospel, which is very different from the law. You need to find a church that understands the difference so that you can obtain Eternal Life. There is no salvation in the SDA church, only condemnation, fraud, and confusion.
Craig Latham said: Some people have mentioned to me that this is the Jewish Law and does not apply to Christians in general. What do you think?
Tom Norris said: There is no question that both the Moral and Ceremonial laws are Jewish. So too is the entire Bible, including the apostles as well as Jesus, the Jewish Messiah.
In fact, the Gospel Story is 100% Jewish, even as the Jewish apostles will rule with the Jewish Christ on the new earth.
The Jewish God never made a covenant with the Gentiles and thus both Jew and Gentile must become spiritual Jews, being grafted into the Semitic based Kingdom of God.
So every legitimate Christian doctrine is Jewish, whether it is baptism or the resurrection, or the Sabbath or even the Second Coming as the Day of Judgment. All Christian doctrine, both in the OC and the NC are Jewish, even though few understand this fact.
Moreover, the Church Fathers were correct to separate the Jewish Ceremonial laws from the 10 Commandment law, and even more correct to teach that the Moral law represents the standard and duty for all in the NT era.
Both Catholic and Protestants have always taken the position that the Moral law of the 10 Commandments continues to exist in the New Covenant. They correctly teach that the Moral law is binding on the church for duty, even as it defines sin and moderates behavior.
Neither the RCC nor the Protestants have ever claimed that the Moral law has been abolished or removed in the New Covenant era. This is a total myth.
However, the church Fathers and the RC church were wrong to claim that the 7th day Sabbath was ceremonial. And even more wrong to develop the Sunday Sabbath as a replacement for the Gentile controlled church.
There is no such doctrine as the Sunday Sabbath, and thus the SDA’s are correct to call it a doctrinal fraud. The apostolic church only observed the 7th day Sabbath as the Lord’s Day, never Sunday. Why? Because there is no theological or cultural basis for a Sunday Lord’s Day. This false Sabbath was the creation of the anti-Semitic Gentiles who need to repent for what they have done.
Craig Latham said: After creating the first man and woman, Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath holy with Jesus. Adam and Eve were not Jewish. Do you think that God was only applying these Ten Commandments to one certain group of people or to all people?
Tom Norris said: The Church has always observed a Sabbath. The apostles embraced the 7th day, while the Gentile church started a change to Sunday, which soon became the norm by the 3rd century. This anti-Semitic change was a great error that must still be corrected.
Today, there is a Gospel Sabbath for the church. It is not Sunday, nor is it the Old Covenant 7th day of the Jews or the SDA’s. I suggest that you search the NT and find the real Gospel, as well as the correct Sabbath that is associated with it.
Craig Latham said: I have found in Genesis that when God created the earth, He created something on every day and then on the seventh day, He created the Sabbath. Also found that Jesus worshiped on His Sabbath day. His disciples worshiped on the Sabbath day. John 14:15 says “If you love me, keep my commandments”. Revelation 14:12 says, “Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus”. It seems to me that these two texts, which both are found in the New Testament, point back to the law, the Ten Commandments, which God gave to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai. God did not just give these Ten Commandments to the Jews, but to the whole world.
Tom Norris said: There should be no doubt that the Jews embraced the 7th day Sabbath. However, there is also no question that Jesus repudiated their Sabbath views and taught a very different version of the 7th day Sabbath for the church. This fact has been overlooked by the SDA’s and thus they have made a great error to promote Old Covenant Sabbath keeping, which is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus promoted.
There is a weekly Gospel Sabbath for the church, and one day, this fact will be proclaimed with great power to the Laodicean Church. Subsequently, all those that embrace the Sunday Sabbath or the Old Covenant 7th day Sabbath of the SDA’s, will have to REPENT.
Craig Latham said: I understand that Jesus was raised from the grave on the first day of the week. This event, in itself, is very important and has great meaning to the salvation of mankind, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day because of His resurrection. Matthew 5:18 says “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
Tom Norris said: If you read the Sabbath debates in the NT, you will see that Jesus re-interpreted the Sabbath for the church. But the Jews were so legalistic and against the Gospel, that they rejected both the Gospel and the Gospel Sabbath, even as they determined to murder Jesus for his claims that God had authorized his new version of the Sabbath.
John 5:16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath.
John 5:17 But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”
John 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
The SDA’s are very wrong to teach that it is a sin to work or play on the Sabbath. Jesus does not agree with their legalistic and Old Covenant Sabbath views, and neither does Paul or the rest of the apostles.
Craig Latham said: When God made the Sabbath on the seventh day, He blessed and hallowed it (to make holy). As I see in the Scriptures, nowhere does God bless and hallow the first day of the week because of His resurrection. As I can see, the disciples were meeting on the first day of the week sometimes just like we meet in church in the middle of the week for prayer meeting.
Tom Norris said: Only the 7th day can be the Sabbath for the Jews or the Church. The Sunday Sabbath is a total and complete fraud. There is no such valid doctrine in the church.
The Sabbath is part of the Moral law, and thus it must survive, in its REFORMED state. It is not to be discarded as if it were part of the ceremonial laws, like circumcision, that were removed at the cross. Nor is it to be viewed as a day of rules and restrictions. Jesus teaches something very different about the Gospel Sabbath.
Craig Latham said: Man has no right to change Gods commandments to meet his/her needs or wants. God is infinite and eternal. Man is sinful and mortal. It seems like the Sabbath has been changed by man and not by God. Why should a God who “changes not” change His own commandments. Is it better to obey God or to obey man?
Tom Norris said: While it is true that no mortal has the right to change the Sabbath, Jesus had such a right and he used his authority to revise the Old Covenant Sabbath and re-interpret it for the church. Thus the New Covenant Sabbath teachings of Jesus are what must define the Sabbath and guide the church until the end of time.
While the SDA’s were correct to condemn the Sunday Sabbath, their view of the Sabbath is also very wrong. They have embraced the Sabbath of the Pharisees, not understanding that this view was repudiated by Jesus and replaced with his own teachings, which are very different from what the SDA’s teach.
One day, the church, both RC and P, will be stunned and humbled when they understand that both Sunday and the Old Covenant Sabbath are false.
Craig Latham said: Why do most denominations, Baptists included, worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, and not on Saturday, the seventh day of the week which God has pointed out as the Sabbath?
Tom Norris said: First off, the SDA’s found the Sabbath because of the Seventh-day Baptists. So it is not correct to say that all Baptists embrace the Sunday Sabbath, they do not.
The error about Sunday came into the church very early. As the Jews fell under the wrath of Rome in 70 AD, they lost, not only their Temple, Priesthood, and Country, they also lost control of the Church. Thus the anti- Semitic Gentiles took charge of the Gospel Story, replacing the 7th day Sabbath with a Sunday version, which endures to this very day as normative for most all Christians.
At the end of time, this error must be exposed and corrected. Why? So that the Gospel may be clearly and correctly understood by all. This is what the SDA’s were supposed to do, but they have failed for all to see. They need to repent, as the Laodicean Message demands, and embrace the correct Gospel, as well as the Gospel Sabbath. Until they do this, no one should join them or support them in any way.
Craig Latham said: God wrote His commandments in stone so that man would know that they do not change just as God Himself does not change.
Tom Norris said: It is not true to say that God does not change. He is the one that invented Old Covenant Judaism, and he is also the one that abolished that paradigm and developed the New Covenant. This was not mans doing but Gods plan.
It is also a great error to confuse the Two Covenants as the SDA’s have done. They will continue to self-destruct until they repent and reform.
Craig Latham said: Why does it seem like the only commandment that people don’t keep is the one that starts with the word“Remember?
Tom Norris said: The fact of the matter is that no one really keeps any of the 10 Commandments in a satisfactory manner so as to please heaven. The NT is clear that all have failed to obey the law, and that no one will ever be saved by obedience to the law.
Moreover, there is no church today that keeps the Sabbath correctly. Not even the SDA’s that make so much noise about how correct they are about the Sabbath. They are very foolish and arrogant to think otherwise.
To underscore this point, note that as the Gospel became more clear to the SDA’s in the late 20th century, (thanks to Dr. Desmond Ford) MILLIONS left the Denomination because they understood that the Adventist doctrine of the Sabbath, as well as the Gospel and the Judgment was very legalistic and wrong.
More than that, most all of the present teachings of the SDA’s are wrong, including their view of prophecy, hermeneutics, finance, and church organization. This explains why so many turn away from the SDA’s and the 7th day Sabbath. It is full of error and associated with legions of false doctrines.
If the SDA’s promoted the correct Gospel Sabbath, and corrected their many doctrinal errors, the opposite would take place. Millions would join Adventism, rejoicing in the freedom, goodness, and mercy of the Gospel. But so far, the SDA’s refuse to admit their errors and repent. So they will continue to self-destruct. Pity.
Craig Latham said: I have seen other versions of the fourth commandment, which only say, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Man changes it to fit his needs. The full text is as above and was given by God Himself. The text points out that the seventh day is the Sabbath.
Tom Norris said: It is not enough to teach that the Sabbath is the 7th day. The Jews also embraced the 7th day Sabbath but what good did it do them? Did they have the correct Sabbath? Hardly.
In fact, when Jesus tried to REFORM the Old Covenant Sabbath, the Jews were horrified and refused to listen. The SDA’s are making the same mistake. They need to pay close attention to how Jesus defined the Sabbath and follow his teachings. It is obvious that they do not understand his Sabbath Reforms, even as they have embraced the wrong Sabbath of the Pharisees.
All need to understand that there is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant Sabbath. The church needs the latter, but the SDA’s have embraced the former. Why would anyone want to join such a confused, arrogant, and rebellious church?
Craig Latham said: A person told me once, who really knows what day is the seventh day. God made the seven-day week and I believe that He has kept a meticulous eye on the days of the week and that Saturday, the seventh day, is the Sabbath.
Tom Norris said: The Jews have kept a faithful record of the days of the week and no one should think otherwise. The whole world is in agreement about the days of the week. This anti Sabbatarian argument is worthless.
Craig Latham asked: Do you worship on the Bible Sabbath? If not, I would like to ask why not and do you think that the Ten Commandments, God’s Law, are still prevalent today?
Tom Norris replied: I will no longer attend an SDA church because they teach so much false, Old Covenant doctrine.
I refuse to place myself in such a cultic environment where propaganda, censorship, and double-talk are the norm. The SDA’s are no longer honest or true of heart, so why would anyone that understands the Gospel want to waste his or her time with such a confused and dishonest people?
The SDA views of the Sabbath, tithe, and food laws are an abomination, and so too their position about the Investigative Judgment and their obsession with Sunday laws. Even their view of the Lord’s Supper is wrong, because wine in the Bible is not grape juice as they teach, but real wine.
So they don’t even know how to celebrate the Eucharist correctly, the most sacred of all Christian ceremonies.
The SDA’s are full of error, so why would anyone that knows this want to worship with them? They don’t even know how to read the Bible properly, and thus they follow a false Christ and a false Gospel. Unless they confess and repent, no one should support or fellowship with them.
But no one needs the SDA’s to embrace either the Gospel or the Gospel Sabbath. I do enjoy the Gospel Sabbath and use it to study the Word and interact with others online. I look forward to the day when the Adventists will repent and embrace the Gospel and the Gospel Sabbath. Then many will rejoice and feel comfortable in an SDA church on the 7th day.
But not now. The local SDA is a cold and uncaring place where the Gospel is unknown and blasphemy is routine part of the service. No wonder the SDA’s are not excluded from the Laodicean Message. They are condemned like all others.
Craig Latham said: I am again looking for a church that worships God and follows all Ten Commandments. I would like to have your input in this matter.
Tom Norris said: It is a great mistake to seek the law instead of the Gospel. Those who make this error do not understand the Gospel or the purpose of the church. They have allowed false teachers to confuse them, and thus they have forfeited Eternal Life.
Any church, like the SDA’s, that features the law over the Gospel, and teaches that our Sanctification will determine our salvation (in a Celestial Judgment, far out in deep space), should be cursed. Why would anyone choose such a false and cultic church?
Any church that teaches Old Covenant Sabbath keeping and tithing as the will of God is so confused and wrong that they do not deserve to be called a church. Thus the SDA’s are only a false church, with a false Gospel and a false Christ.
Let me be clear: The SDA’s stand condemned and guilty before heaven and earth. To join them is to share in their condemnation and guilt. Are you sure that this is what you want to do?
The only hope for the SDA’s is for them to pay attention to the real Pre-Advent Judgment, which is the Laodicean Message, and REPENT of their many false doctrines. This is their only hope. Until they do this, let all beware the SDA’s.
I hope this helps,
Tom Norris for All Experts.com and Adventist Reform
