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Seventh-Day Adventists/Abraham had the Ten Commandments – Follow up - Continued…

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Kevin McMillen wrote at 2012-08-31 18:02:39
sal,



As you know there is no way to prove or disprove that Abraham kept the Sabbath, we must use common sense.



I also can't prove why God destroyed the earth with a flood or Sodom with fire. The bible says because they werw wicked and evil.



What made them wicked and evil, the bible doesn't say, because the book of Genesis gives us no laws or commands prior to these events. Read Genesis up until the flood or the destruction of Sodom and tell me what commands you can find that is worthy of death by flood or fire?



Yes, I agree, I'm arguing from silence, but so are you. Genesis is not a book of laws, it is a book of our historic beginnings.



The biblical evidence is:



1. God rested (shabat, no, not the word shabbat, but close enough? That's a question each individual must make between them and their God on their knees)on the seventh day.



2. God says that Abraham obeyed God's voice, kept his charge, his statutes, his commandments and his laws.



3. God tells Israel to obey his voice, his charge, his stautes, commandments and laws. ( are they the same ones that Abraham obeyed? I don't know. That is for the individual to decide on their knees with their God.)



4. Isaiah in the last chapter of his book says that in the future all nations will keep the Sabbath. (I should mention Zech. 14 which says that all nations will also keep the Feast of Tabernacles, including Egypt.)



5. Jesus kept the Sabbath. (yeah, I know because he was a Jew under the old covenant.)



6. Paul kept the Sabbath. (yes, almost every reference to Paul going to the synagogue on the Sabbath could mean he just went there to preach because he knew the Jews would be there not to keep the Sabbath, but the reference in Acts 13 is quite different. It says he spoke to the Jews, then the gentiles asked him to preach the next Sabbath. What a perfect opportunity for Paul to tell them to come out tomorrow, or in three days because the Sabbath was old covenant. But he didn't tell them that. In fact he enforced the sabbath by allowing the whole city to come out the next Sabbath.)



7. Paul even kept the Holy Days, 1 Cor. 5:8, Acts 18:21



8. The phrase "first day of the week" does not mean Sunday, but the Greek literal translation is "first of the sabbaths" meaning the first of the seven sabbaths/weeks leading up to Pentecost. So, Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16: 2 does not prove a Sunday meeting of the church, it merely means that some time during that first week, the first week counting to Pentecost, they met and gathered food for the famined Jews in Judea.



9. Jesus said that we are to keep his commandments. What are his commandments? Who gave the Ten Commandments?



John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.



Col. 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



Heb. 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



Since we see here that Jesus is the one that made all things, now we need to consider just who it was that spoke to Moses on the mount.



John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].



John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.



O.k. so who did Moses see?



Ex. 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:



10 And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness.



11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



So, just who did he see? The bible says that no one has ever seen the Father, so it must have been the Son.



This was YHVH that spoke to Moses. Moses also saw his backside.



It was Jesus that gave the Ten Commandments to Moses.



Jesus' commandments were the Ten Commandments





O.k. Sal, you say that I have no biblical evidence to come to the conclusion that the Sabbath was made for man from the creation of the earth. So be it, I don't, not in those exact words, but the evidence is clear enough for anyone willing to listen. Jesus is the God that has always been dealing with mankind. Jesus is the God that created Adam, why would he not give Adam his laws?



Do I assume too much to conclude that God's laws, Jesus's laws, are for all of mankind as long as there is a man alive? I don't think so but the choice is yours. Get on your knees and ask Jesus to reveal his truth to you.



You are no longer being deceived by the SDA church, now it's time to quit allowing mainstream Christianity to deceive you.



I agree, Ellen White was a false prophetess, the SDA church is a cult, but one can still keep the Sabbath and Holy days without belonging to a physical church organization.



Come out of her my people.


Kevin McMillen wrote at 2012-09-02 11:45:56
I'd like to point out, it was not my intention to offend any SDA member when I said the SDA church was a cult. I also believe the Baptist church is a cult, the Methodist church is a cult, the Presbyterian church is a cult, etc. I believe that any church organization that teaches that someone should belong to their group is a cult. I believe that denominationalism is cultic.



I personally grew up in the Worldwide church of God, I quit that cult 20 years ago. Just as I said that EW was a false prophetess, I also believe that Herbert Armstrong was a false prophet. I know a lot of good biblical teaching came from both, but they also had their bad theology, and to look to them as some spiritual guru is wrong. I rely solely on the bible for my beliefs.



I'm willing to listen to anyone. I occasionally attend church at Methodist a church on Sunday, SDA church on the Sabbath, etc. I'm a member of no organization and I never will be again. Denominationalism is idolatry. We should be willing to fellowship with anyone that says they are a Christian, whether a Sunday keeper, a no day keeper, or a Sabbath keeper.



Sure, we're going to have our disagreements, but isn't how we get along with our fellow man what is most important?



My intent isn't to offend but to offer an alternate view for my brethren to consider.





Kevin McMillen k l j c m c "a t" c o m c a s t "d o t" c o m  


Kevin McMillen wrote at 2012-09-09 01:10:08
Kevin McMillen k l j c m c "a t" c o m c a s t "d o t" c o m  



 sorry, that would be d o t n e t


Tom wrote at 2012-10-17 18:30:14
John, you write like an SDA...angry for your Sabbath. I guess that pesky "Christ alone" for salvation is not fair for everyone else to have who is ignoring the sabbath when you are diligently desecrating it. I was SDA and am sad for you.


Frank wrote at 2012-11-13 02:32:05
We are not saved  by keeping the law. We cannot be saved if we refuse to keep it.



In Christ's love,

Frank


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Sal

Expertise

I am privileged to be able to offer an alternative insight into the complicated world of Seventh-Day Adventists (SDA) theology. I will rely heavily on the Bible, but will also consider history and use logic in exposing deficiencies in SDA teachings. I would ask anyone who is considering becoming a SDA or if you are already in the SDA church, but are searching for the truth, to please allow me to offer a different explanation for the claims of the SDA. Remember : "The truth will set you free" (John 8:32). I can answer your questions pertaining to the beliefs and history of the SDA. I am not able to answer questions concerning spirituality or church discipline.

Experience

I have extensively studied the theology of the Seventh-Day Adventists (SDA) for a number of years. I have many books and tape sets produced by experts in this field of study. I have debated current members of the SDA church. I have a great desire to help these people see the truth.

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M.S. degree in Food, Nutrition, and Dietetics

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