Seventh-Day Adventists/Bible Versions
QUESTION: Why do you use a Bible that omits verses completely?
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:19)
The verse is specifically talking about the book of Revelation but the principle would certainly apply to all of the Bible.
The NIV (which I have read your replies to others where you use this Bible to defend an point) has many verses completely omitted.
How can you justify this? The Adventists are accused of having their own Bible (The Clear Word) - which is NOT their own Bible. It's a paraphrase and says so clearly on the book. It's no different than the Living Bible which no one seems to have a problem with.
Some verses omitted from the NIV
Mark 9:44 and 46
I John 5:7 (this omits a great portion of the verse that proves there are 3 persons to the Godhead)
The NIV will skip right over these verses. WHY?
Why do you find it acceptable to use such a translation?
Not all Bibles are created equal are they?
ANSWER: Dear David,
Thank you for your comments and questions.
For the record, I use several versions of the Bible including KJV, NKJV, NLT, AMP, NASB but never the Clear Word.
I have no idea why the aforementioned verses were not included with the other verses in the NIV but please take note that references are made to each one of them as indicated below. They were not omitted
and alphabetic pointers were provided as to where they could be conveniently located on the page. I don't see it as a problem because the information is there just not where you would expect to see it.
Acts 8:37 (KJV)
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts 8:37 (NIV) The footnote after verse 36 is indicated by the letter ‘n’ and it reads:
Phillip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch answered, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Matthew 17:21 (KJV)
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Matthew 17:21 (NIV) Footnote “p”reads:
But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.
Matthew 18:11 (KJV)
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matthew 18:11 (NIV) footnote “r” reads:
The Son of Man came to save what was lost.
Mark 9:44, 46 (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:44, 46 (NIV) Footnote “g” reads:
Where/ “their worm does not die, / and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 11:26 (KJV)
26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Mark 11:26 (NIV) Footnote “u” reads:
But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your sins.
Mark 15:28 (KJV)
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
Mark 15:28 (NIV) Footnote “v” reads:
And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “He was counted with the lawless ones.”
Luke 17:36 (KJV)
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:36 (NIV) Footnote “r” reads:
Two men shall be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
1 John 5:7 (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 (NIV) Footnote “k” reads:
Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
You will note that the meaning of the verses in the NIV were not altered unlike what happens with the Clear Word. The Clear Word Bible or "paraphrase" is uniquely Seventh-day Adventist because of its extensive Ellen G. White commentary and some Scriptures are actually altered "to fit" SDA theology.
Following is an article for your perusal providing a few examples: http://www.clearwordexposed.com/
Yes, the NIV skipped right over some verses but not without leaving a flag as to where they could be found.
I hope this response has been somewhat helpful.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: The missing verses are only the beginning of the problems with the NIV.
The original manuscript used for the NIV not only omits many complete verses but also changes and drops many sentences or thoughts from many other verses. Again why would one want to even bother with a Bible like this? If the SDA's did this would you not be all over them?
As for the Clear Word - there's really nothing to "expose" - it's a paraphrased Bible for Adventists to read.
Back to the Bibles problem:
There are issues with many of the translations and the manuscripts they originate from.
Example of the NKJV vs. the KJV
Do you believe in the Catholic doctrine of purgatory? The NKJV Bible implies just that in 2 Peter 2:9:
(KJV) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.
(NKJV) then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment
for the day of judgment,
I find your judgment in this matter seems to be very biased in the Bibles question. You really come down hard for an Adventist theology teacher (Jack Blanco) who puts out a paraphrase of the Bible but yet it's "no big deal" when there's a Bible, and a popular translation at that, that drops whole verses and deletes important phrases and sentences from many other verses. I have a copy of the NIV and it does not list anywhere in that Bible the missing verses.
I appreciate your concerns regarding the NIV and other translations. I use an NIV Study Bible, in fact all of my Bibles are study Bibles, which is probably why I have information that a 'regular' NIV version does not contain.
However, be that as it may, the only accurate reading would probably be in the Greek and Hebrew originals. I am sure translating has not done the originals justice. For instance, I was in contact with a Rabbi regarding the law and according to him there is no such thing as the Ten Commandments. Following is a quote from an email he sent me:
"As to the Ten Commandments, there is no such thing. I realize that everyone thinks
it is the Ten Commandments, and therefore calling it anything else would be
troublesome, and as so even most knowing people stick to the title. However, the
Hebrew term for "Ten Commandments" would be, "Aseres Mitzvos," and that is
NOT what these commandments are called. They are called the "Aseres HaDibros,"
the Ten STATEMENTS. The Rambam (Maimonides) explains to us that the Aseres
Hadibros are actually 14 commandments, couched within Ten Statements."
The Ten Commandments are a hot topic to not be the Ten Commandments, wouldn't you agree? I believe the Lord has given us His inspired Word and I am just not smart enough to know Hebrew and Greek and what was lost in translation. You seem to be a 'die-hard' for the King James Version (KJV), which is totally fine with me (not that you need my approval). :-)
I always found the KJV very difficult to understand and when the NIV was published I really liked it. In fact, I purchased a parallel Bible so I could compare the KJV with the NIV. My preference became the NIV because I understood it better in my language. For me, it has been a tremendous blessing but I have come to love the NLT, NKJV and Holman's even more.
Some champions of the KJV believe that it is the only Bible that should be used. Why not give us the God given freedom to make our own choices about what speaks to our hearts? I always pray for guidance and I trust God to lead and guide me in my studies. I began to take my NIV to church when I was an SDA because the pastors used it the most when preaching.
Yes, I guess I am biased but I am biased only towards the Clear Word because it is written for a specific group of people, it's commentary is based on the writings of one person and some verses have been changed to fit SDA theology.
I also find the Message and The Living Bible very easy to read but they don't suit me personally but I will never condemn anyone who are blessed by them. That's simply not my place.
God can take us from wherever we are and help us to understand His Word, which isn't nearly as difficult as some people and churches try to make it. The Gospel is simple and is Good News because of what Jesus has done to reconcile us to the Father. All we have to do is accept His complete and perfect work by faith and allow the Holy Spirit to live within us and empower us to do His will.
I don't know everything and don't desire to know everything. What I want to know are the important things that tells me of what Jesus has done for me and how I can be reconciled to Him and be saved. If I only had and knew John 3:16 and accepted and believed it, the Holy Spirit has the power to lead me and tell me what I should and should not do. Oftentimes, our many doctrines get in the way of how truly simple salvation is. Perhaps I am too simplistic, but that's me. Blessings!
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Hello, Thanks for your speedy reply. I would be careful to just take the word of anyone - including the Rabbi you spoke with. From what you say he said is not agreeing with the Bible's terminology.
Deut. 4:13 "And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments
; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."
The Strong's Concordance has these two words there in the Hebrew. The definition for "commandments" in the Strong's has "commandment" as one of the definitions but the word "statement" is not there. If God made 10 statements or 10 commandments - it is still 10 guidelines that are for the good of His creation.
"I don't know everything and don't desire to know everything. What I want to know are the important things that tells me of what Jesus has done for me and how I can be reconciled to Him and be saved. If I only had and knew John 3:16 and accepted and believed it, the Holy Spirit has the power to lead me and tell me what I should and should not do. Oftentimes, our many doctrines get in the way of how truly simple salvation is. Perhaps I am too simplistic, but that's me. Blessings!"
So in other words you are saying "Jesus loves me and died on the cross and I'm saved - everything else is not that important or doesn't really matter."(?) If that's the case why did God make 30% of the Biblical record prophecy? If he didn't want Christians to really know this stuff. Why would God repeat the same prophecy 4 different times in Daniel if it wasn't important? God wants us to have a knowledge of what is happening and what is going to happen. Sure we may not know every little nook and cranny but God has provided lots of info that we can discern.
Please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say but there more to the Bible and the plan of salvation than Jesus love me and that's it. His love also extends into His foreknowledge of prophecy. Like he did for Daniel God delights in sharing His secrets with us. He's not a selfish God.
Which leads me to my next thought: I sent a question before this one on points of prophecy - I'm looking forward to hearing from you on this.
Also - why was this private?
Thanks and God Bless,
First, your response came back to me as private and I wondered why. Since it was obviously a mistake (per your questioning me about it), I have attempted to change it back to public.
Secondly, why make such broad assumptions? You said, "Please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say but there more to the Bible and the plan of salvation than Jesus love me and that's it. His love also extends into His foreknowledge of prophecy. Like he did for Daniel God delights in sharing His secrets with us. He's not a selfish God."
Knowing prophecy has nothing to do with salvation per se. It's good to know prophecy in order to know the warning signs of what is suppose to take place, but knowing prophecy and knowing Jesus are two separate matters. The Jews knew and taught the prophecies but didn't recognize their fulfillment in the Person of Jesus. They didn't know Him and sent so far as to have Him crucified. So, what real good did 'knowing' prophecy do them?
Please understand that I am not bashing prophecy because it definitely has its place because God used and uses it as guideposts or signs for us. It's good to know prophecy so that we can know what to expect, to reassure us that God is in control and that He is Omniscient and Sovereign.
I believe we all have our different biases and/or points of emphasis when we study, so for me, while I believe the entire Bible, I tend to gravitate towards the fulfillment of prophecy that took place on the Cross and the resurrection of Jesus to reconcile us to God. I also gravitate towards the prophecy that tells me that Jesus is coming again and that He will not allow me to suffer His wrath with the wicked. I anxiously await prophecy's fulfillment as I see the prophetic warning signs around me on a daily basis.
I believe that loving God, having faith in God, believing in God and letting His Spirit abide in me, equips me to go and spread His message of reconciliation to God. It also includes sharing the prophecy that He will come again to receive His children unto Himself and that those who do not repent and allow Him to have give them a born again experience will be cast into the lake of fire.
So yes, I believe in prophecy and in its importance, but my stance has been not to discuss my beliefs regarding the intricacies of Daniel and Revelation on this site and elsewhere due to the various teachings and interpretations. Blessings!