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Seventh-Day Adventists/Ellen White and William Miller and prophecy

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Question
Some comments first and then my questions will follow:

I have just read your answer to a question you were asked about Ellen White being dead, etc... Here is part of your answer:

The obelisk at her graveside (in my opinion) has something to do with the Free Masons. Research has shown that William Miller, one of the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist church was a Free Mason and she was heavily influenced by him. Also, Ellen White used coded Free Masonry jargon throughout her writings.

William Miller was a Baptist minister. He never once kept the 7th day Sabbath. How come you never say this? The Seventh-day Adventist church never came into organization until 1863. Miller's work had profound influence on the future church that would organize but he was not a founder of the church. He died a Baptist minister keeping Sunday.

I think you had mentioned once that you go to a Baptist church. If this is the case then I guess you should leave and discredit the Baptist church(?).

The SDA church never predicted a date for the Second Coming of Jesus - it was a Baptist minister who actually did this.

You consider Adventist's end-time scenario very imaginative and crazy but yet you will entertain that Ellen White has coded Freemasonry language throughout her writings. Who is willing to entertain fables here?

I would like to ask a couple of question on prophecy. Could you please tell me your understanding of the prophecy of Daniel 2. What do the symbols of the dream Nebuchadnezzar represent. What does the gold, silver, brass, iron legs, feet/toes of iron and clay, stone, and the great mountain represent? This is a very basic prophecy that even a child can understand. What are your thoughts?

A second question:
Do you believe in a secret rapture in where Christians will disappear in an instance like portrayed in the movie Left Behind?
Could you please elaborate on this a bit?

Thanks and God Bless,
David R.

Answer
Hello David,

Thanks for your comments and questions.

You said:
“William Miller was a Baptist minister. He never once kept the 7th day Sabbath. How come you never say this? The Seventh-day Adventist church never came into organization until 1863. Miller's work had profound influence on the future church that would organize but he was not a founder of the church. He died a Baptist minister keeping Sunday.”

My response:

Technically your comment is true, however, the Adventists (those who believed Miller’s 1844 message) and the Seventh-day Adventist Church came about as a result of the Millerite Movement. Some of the SDA’s doctrines were based on Miller’s research and faulty conclusions.

Mrs. White believed that the hand of God led Miller and Miller's work eventually became a test of faith.

The following quotation is taken from The Life of Mrs. E. G. White , by Canfield, page 66:

“Neither he (James White) or his wife never originated a single doctrine held by the SDA’s. The doctrine of the Second Advent they received from Miller; and all prophetic dates they accepted from him exactly as he arranged them. The Sabbath they took from Bates…the theory of the Sanctuary in heaven they accepted from Elder O. L. R. Crosier…Later they accepted from Andrews the theory of the three messages and the two horned beast, as applied to the United States; The sleep of the dead they got from the First-Day Adventists.”

So as you can see, the SDA’s doctrines came from various people. Elder Crosier, who was credited with giving them the Sanctuary doctrine later renounced it saying that it could not be supported with Scripture. Miller and Ellen White also believed in the Shut Door, meaning the door of mercy would be closed forever for all those who did not accept Miller’s prediction that Christ would come in 1844.

You said:

The SDA church never predicted a date for the Second Coming of Jesus - it was a Baptist minister who actually did this.

My response:

Technically, you are correct BUT why is it included in the SDA church history? Why is the 1844 Disappointment associated with the SDA church when it wasn't organized until 1863?

“While some of Ellen G. White’s early statements were written before the official organization of the SDA church, nevertheless, all of her published writings – even those written before 1863, the official date of denominational organization – are accepted by SDA’s as part of the Ellen G. White’s treasured heritage. Ellen White had some very strong statements regarding those who accepted or rejected the 1843 message of Miller.” Cultic Doctrine by Dale Ratzlaff. Following is an example:

“The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. “No man knoweth the day nor the hour,” was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer. Neither would be instructed and corrected by those who were pointing to the year when they believed the prophetic periods would run out, and to the signs which showed Christ near, even at the doors. Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the preaching of Christ’s coming, but they objected to the definite time. God’s all-seeing eye read their hearts. They did not love Jesus near. They knew that their unchristian lives would not stand the test, for they were not walking in the humble path marked out by Him. These false shepherds stood in the way of the work of God . The truth spoken in its convincing power aroused the people, and like the jailer, they began to inquire, “What must I do to be saved?” But these shepherds stepped in between the truth and the people, and preached smooth things to lead them from the truth. They united with Satan and his angels, crying, “Peace, peace,” when there was no peace. Those who loved their ease and were content with their distance from God would not be aroused from their carnal security. I saw that angels of God marked it all; the garments of those unconsecrated shepherds were covered with the blood of souls.” {EW 233.2}

“Ministers who would not accept this saving message themselves hindered those who would have received it. The blood of souls is upon them. Preachers and people joined to oppose this message from heaven and to persecute William Miller and those who united with him in the work. Falsehoods were circulated to injure his influence; and at different times after he had plainly declared the counsel of God, applying cutting truths to the hearts of his hearers, great rage was kindled against him, and as he left the place of meeting, some waylaid him in order to take his life. But angels of God were sent to protect him, and they led him safely away from the angry mob. His work was not yet finished.” {EW 234.1

Those ministers who stood up for what the Bible says about no man knowing the day or hour of the Lord’s return were called false shepherds and they were accused of being covered with the blood of souls. Indeed, the Bible was and is correct – no man knows the hour!

Your first question asked me to share my views on the prophecy of Daniel 2. In my profile or bio, I stated that I would not deal with questions regarding prophecy. Sorry!

Your second question is:
“Do you believe in a secret rapture in where Christians will disappear in an instance like portrayed in the movie Left Behind? Could you please elaborate on this a bit?”

My reponse:

Yes, I do believe in a rapture (meaning caught up) but I cannot say for sure that it will be secret since Thessalonians say that "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the archangel , and with the trump of God:

The Bible says

Luke 17:34-36 (KJV)
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

According to these verses, the believer will be taken to be with the Lord and the unbeliever will be left behind.

The Bible says

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him .
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When a believer dies, his body returns to dust but his spirit or soul returns to God. The body dies but the soul continues to live. We are a soul that lives in a body.

Luke 8:54,55
"He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, 'Child, arise!'  And her spirit returned , and she rose immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat."

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul ; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the soul and body in hell."

James 2:26
"For just as the body without the spirit is dead , so also faith without works is dead."

1 Kings 17:21,22
"Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the Lord, and said, 'O Lord my God, I pray Thee, let this child's life return to him .'  And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived ."

The term "death" which is "thanatas" in Greek, does not mean to be non-existent or unconscious, it rather means to be separated.

According to 1 Thessalonians, Jesus will return with the souls whose bodies returned to dust. The resurrected incorruptible body will reunite with the soul that never died. Those believers that are alive with be caught up (raptured) to meet Him in the air and they will go home with Jesus to feast at the Welcome Table as described in John 14:1-3.

While the church is in heaven, the Great Tribulation takes place. According to the Bible, the Lord always delivers His people before bringing wrath on the wicked. Examples would be Lot and Noah. 2 Peter 2:4-10 reads….

2 Peter 2:5-7 (NASB)
……. 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah , a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
7 and if He rescued righteous Lot , ………

God also took Enoch before wrath and destruction came to the unrighteous people that he preached to.

Jude 1:14-15 (NASB)
14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Abraham stated this principle eloquently: "And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? ...Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"." Genesis 18:23,25

The Lord rescued Lot before bringing destruction on Sodom and Gommorah. The church is in heaven while the Great Tribulation takes place and before the antichrist is released. This is in keeping with God bringing deliverance to His people before releasing His wrath.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (AMP)
6 And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming .

This is what I believe, but bottom line for me, however and whenever He comes really doesn't matter to me because whenever He comes and however He comes, I will continue to be with Him and I will continue to be happy in His presence. Blessings!

Seventh-Day Adventists

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Patricia Allen

Expertise

As a former Seventh-day Adventist (SDA), I have insight of value to those who are questioning and/or trying to decide if they should leave or become an SDA. It would be my privilege to discuss SDA church doctrine, structure, Ellen White, the old and new covenants, and their various beliefs. The Bible will be my main source of reference and all quotes, etc. will be documented. I understand that there are different variants of Adventists, but I am only familiar with what I would call traditional or main stream.

Experience

I was a Seventh-day Adventist for over 50 years. I attended their schools and I was always active in the churches I attended. I also worked for the denomination for 37 years. Since I was educated in their schools from Grade 1, and because what I was taught came from the Bible, I never questioned my beliefs. I considered myself as one whom the Lord had chosen to bring out of darkness into His marvelous light. In the year 2005, I became keenly aware that Ellen White contradicted the Scriptures numerous times and plagiarized some of her most popular writings. At this point, I had to seriously consider studying for myself with the aid of the Holy Spirit to see if indeed I really had the truth. Sad to say, I discovered that I was deluded and deliberately deceived by the church I loved and served. In 2010, I requested that my name be withdrawn from the membership roster of the church. Since then, it has been my passion to tell those in the SDA church and those considering joining Adventism, the truth and freedom that I have discovered and enjoy daily. I interact on Facebook with SDAs frequently regarding their beliefs and doctrines compared to the Bible. In addition to answering questions on this site, I have a blog (www.patricia-allen.blogspot.com) and the purpose of my articles is to expose the false doctrines of the SDA church After 50 plus years of trying to 'work' my way, I have discovered the sweet rest in the finished work of my Savior. I've also discovered that there is nothing that I have ever done to make Jesus love me less and there is nothing that I can ever do to make Jesus love me more. Jesus just loves me and this I know!

Education/Credentials
M.A.O.M. degree (Master of Arts in Organizational Management). I also have a B.A.I.C. degree (Born Again in Christ). My calling is to help spread the Good News of the Gospel and to help lift the veil by sharing Jesus, Who is the Truth and the Light.

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