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the humane nature we are born with its fallen but not sinful. therefore Jesus could take on our nature then live a sinless life. what is David saying in psalms 51:5 and 58:3 help me understand this most important topic. thanks so much in CHRIST bro mike

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Mike,

>> the humane nature we are born with its fallen but not sinful.

Depends upon what you mean by that.  Are we born guilty of sin?  No.  But, are we born predisposed to sin?  Yes.  We are born with a carnal nature, which is a sinful nature that no matter how hard we try (on our own) is predisposed to sin.

>> therefore Jesus could take on our nature then live a sinless life.

Again, depends upon what you mean by that.  He took on our physical nature but not our spiritual nature (Luke 1:35).  To take on our physical nature means that He was subject to the same physical weaknesses that we have to deal with, too.  However, the reason He is called the second Adam (1Cor. 15:45-47) is because He was given the same perfect spiritual nature that Adam was originally given.  Adam squandered that gift and chose to sin.  Jesus Christ did <u>not </u> come to show that, on my own, I do not have to sin.  No, I am predisposed to sin and cannot help but sin if left to my own devices (Rom. 5:19).

Rather, Jesus Christ came to show that <u>Adam </u> did not have to make that choice.  God's Law <u>is </u> possible to keep if one chooses God, first.  Adam could have chosen to obey God -- but he didn't.  So, Christ came to choose obedience and then to take on our guilt and die the Second Death to provide an Atonement for all sin -- but only if the sinner chooses to accept Christ's death in place of their own.  If we make that choice, we have been promised a new heart and a new mind that comes through the process of sanctification (Ezekiel 36:26) and it comes with a new appreciation for God's Law (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10).

>> what is David saying in psalms 51:5 and 58:3 ...

Psalm 51:5  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 58:3  The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

To me, these two verses are proof that the carnal nature with which we are born will only lead to sin and destruction if left to our own devices.  So, we are born into sin -- not into its guilt; but, without Jesus Christ, we are born into the inescapable fact of sin's destruction.

May God richly bless you in direct proportion to your desire to know, and to do, the full truth even as it is in Yehsh' haMshyach, Jesus Christ, The Messiah, our Lord, and our Saviour.  Awmane!

Sincerely,
Dave

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Dave L Clark

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I can answer most any question which is truly Bible-centric. I make this distinction because there is much which is considered biblical; but, which, is actually based only upon the traditions of men. However, I will also state this caveat: not all traditions are necessarily "bad" by definition. Otherwise, the subject about which I am passionate is The Law of God. There is much misconception in this area. In point of fact, I, myself, only woke up a bit over 10 years ago (2002) to what is truly meant by the Law of God and how that relates to Salvation. This, of course, is a touchy subject when you start mixing the Law of God with the subject of Salvation -- which, everyone should know, is a gift of God, by grace, through faith and not of works; lest any man should boast (Eph. 2:8,9). I am thankful that God the Holy Spirit has opened, and is opening, my eyes to these Truths.

Experience

I have taken Bible classes every year since the first grade through 4-year college level and study the Bible every week with others in Sabbath School. I have also continued studying the Bible, on my own, throughout my life -- particularly these last 10+ years. Therefore, I consider myself to have about 48+ years of both formal and informal Bible experience upon which to draw.

Organizations
I am a current member in good and full standing with the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. I am also a level-7 member of Yahoo!Answers in the Religion & Spirituality group. Lastly, though not a related discipline, I am also a member at LinkedIn.com because of my professional standing as a computer programmer of more than 35 years.

Publications
"The Truth About the Law of God" by Dave L Clark I is a 298-page book available at Amazon.com. Some of my writings may also be found on the following websites: << http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=439894129445 >>; << http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index?sid=396545163 >>; and, << http://www.BibleExplorations.info/articles >>.

Education/Credentials
I have 3 years of formal college and a 4-year college equivalence degree in Information Technology. Otherwise, I am not formally credentialed in Bible doctrine or theology. However, when did God ever say that He only speaks to or through theologian-type or highly-placed sources?

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