Seventh-Day Adventists/What church?

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Question
QUESTION: You seem to know a lot about the Seventh-day Adventists. What church do you attend or belong to?

ANSWER: Tom Norris was born SDA, in Takoma Park, MD.  I only went to SDA schools and even studied theology at CUC, now called Adventist University.   I have been, and still remain, a member of the Capital Memorial SDA Church, - for 60 years.  I have also been researching SDA history and theology for 40 years, which explains why I am so informed about the real issues.

Here is something that I have learned:  if anyone wants to understand Adventism, they must first understand the history and views of Ellen White and her 19th century peers.  

To misunderstand Ellen White’s story, is to misunderstand Adventism.  With this in mind, I went into the White Estate in search of the real Ellen White of history.  To my surprise, I found her being held prisoner by Arthur White in the basement of the General Conference building.

In 1979, I was given special permission to enter the White Estate Vaults to research Ellen White’s writings about the 1888 debates.  There I discovered a massive fraud, whereby thousands of rare, historic, documents had been hidden and suppressed by Arthur White.  Why?  So that the church could promote a fabricated and manipulated story of Ellen White and her views.  

This stunning discovery of publishing fraud in the White Estate was quickly covered up by the church leaders and remains un-confessed and stonewalled to this very day.  At some point, this crime must be exposed and the record corrected.   This I intend to do, even if legal action is required.

I repeat: the published story of Ellen White is a fraud, and the leaders have known this fact for decades.  Ellen White is not a fraud, but the White Estate’s version of her life and her beliefs have been horribly manipulated by Arthur White and others.  (No wonder everyone is so confused about Ellen White?)  To be blunt; the White Estate is a criminal enterprise.  Period!

Hidden Documents in White Estate
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/Hidden-Documents.htm

Now that I have gone public with this information, calling for honest reform in the White Estate, I am officially an outcast; no longer allowed to speak in the SDA media, which means that I am forbidden to post on the Review or Spectrum Forums, which are controlled by the church.  This is how whistleblowers are treated by SDA’s; censored and silenced.

The modern SDA leaders do not want to hear about their wrongdoings, nor do they want the public to find out what they have done.  They no longer care for truth, thus they have turned out to be very dishonest, even criminal.  No one should trust anything that is published by the SDA Denomination; it is most likely to be worthless, self-serving propaganda and fabrication.

Here is some Profile info about Tom Norris:

Experience in the area

Tom Norris was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist in Takoma Park, Md. He attended SDA grade and High schools, moving on to study Adventist theology at Columbia Union College. He also spent significant time conducting independent research in the General Conference Archives and the Ellen G. White Estate. Over the years he has also interviewed a number of prominent Adventist scholars, theologians, and Pastors ranging from the late Arthur White to the exiled Dr. Desmond Ford. In addition, he has amassed a large private library, which includes numerous rare books and manuscripts about Adventist theology and history. He is presently the online editor of Adventist Reform, and can be found at Adventist for Tomorrow answering questions online about SDA theology and history as well as promoting Adventist Reform.

http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewforum.php?id=11

Education/Credentials

Tom Norris attended SDA grade and High schools, moving on to study Adventist theology at Columbia Union College. He also spent significant time conducting independent research in the General Conference Archives and the Ellen G. White Estate.

http://www.allexperts.com/ep/2318-70484/Seventh-Day-Adventists/Tom-Norris.htm

Today, the modern SDA’s are self-destructing in well-deserved confusion and chaos.  Millions of former members have already left this Old Covenant denomination that can no longer tell the truth or grow.  The endless debates about Ellen White and the Investigative Judgment have taken their toll.  The Advent Movement, which was turned into a cult of Ellen White by Arthur White, it is near death.

Until the SDA’s repent for their massive fraud in the White Estate and better understand their doctrinal development, becoming honest about Ellen White and her writings, they are doomed.  

Regardless, one way or another, this massive, ongoing fraud in the White Estate will not stand.   The Advent Movement will not be bound by fraud; it must go forward without the many myths and fabrications from this self-destructing Denomination that has lost its’ way.  Adventist Reform is inevitable, the sooner the better.

I hope this helps,

Tom Norris for All Experts.Com & Adventist Reform


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Tom,
Your answer to my previous question was misleading,if not totally dishonest. You are NOT a member of the Capital church. Furthermore, your statements about the Adventist's are also misleading. You gave "advice" to one individual that it really doesn't matter which day of the week you
worship so long as one simply worships. Where do you find THAT in the Bible!
You also allude to the idea that there isn't one specific church today. Yet my Bible says "one Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph. 4:5. And any reading of the Bible makes it clear that Christians are responsible to God for keeping His commandments and having the faith of Jesus. This seems to be something missing in your criticism of the E.G. White estate. The fact is, people are always attacking Ellen White whenever they can't
argue with the idea of commandment keeping. Too bad, because they are essential to eternal life, and there is nothing "old covenant" about that, or haven't you read Genesis. By basing your entire criticism on the E.G. White estate, you've missed the whole point of Jesus appearance on this planet which, in part, is to enable us to keep His commandments! Leave E.G. White and the estate out of your argument (?) and see what is left.

Jim

Answer
Jim said:  Tom, Your answer to my previous question was misleading, if not totally dishonest. You are NOT a member of the Capital church.

Tom replied:  First off, I am disappointed that you think I would try to mislead or deceive anyone.  I am trying to promote serious Gospel Reform within the Adventist Community.  This cannot be done by deception or double-talk.

Second, my bio is as stated.  I was born in Takoma Park to an SDA family.  I went to SDA schools, and as far back as I can remember, to the Capital Memorial Church.

http://www.allexperts.com/ep/2318-70484/Seventh-Day-Adventists/Tom-Norris.htm

In fact, as a small child, I went every Sabbath to CMC.  I even remember the old church on 5th and F streets, way downtown.  As a boy, I also remember the new church on Chesapeake Street, which was very modern and cutting edge in its day.

http://www.capitalmemorial.org

So I can assure you that I was raised as a vegetarian, Bible believing, SDA, and a long time member at Capital Memorial Church, a place that Richard Fredericks and Jack Sequira were both pastors at one time.  I will always have fond memories of the many wonderful people that I have met there over the years.

Feel free to call the church and speak to CJ, the Pastor, he knows me and my Mother, who faithfully attends every week.  (I no longer attend because I don’t embrace Old Covenant Adventism).  When you ask about me, just be sure to mention that you are asking about Mary Cross’ son.

The real question should be this: 1) Did Tom Norris gain entrance into the White Estate, and 2) Did he find a large collection of EGW documents that were being hidden and suppressed?

Regardless where I went to church, the answer is YES and YES.  

The Adventist Community needs to wake up and deal with this massive fraud in the White Estate that was uncovered by Tom Norris in 1979.  Unless this cancer is cured, the Advent Movement will die.  Look around, it’s almost dead now.

Jim charged:  Furthermore, your statements about the Adventist's are also misleading.

Tom replied:  Again, I am disappointed that you think I have some hidden, evil agenda, or that I am the enemy of the Advent Movement.  My Gospel based agenda is to return Adventism back to its eschatological core, which includes a policy of searching for truth, and removing all error and theological double-talk.

If you have any specific complaints about how I am explaining either theology or church history, please speak up and make whatever criticisms you think necessary.  This is how the search for truth works. I will try to not only answer, but to give you the sources so you can do further research.

Jim said:  You gave "advice" to one individual that it really doesn't matter which day of the week you worship so long as one simply worships. Where do you find THAT in the Bible!

Tom said:  I don’t think you understand what I am saying about the Sabbath.  Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?  

The Reformed 7th day Sabbath
http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=228

While there are legions that attack the SDA’s and their view of the 7th day Sabbath, I have concluded that they are correct to claim Sunday is a fraud and that only the 7th day can be the NC Sabbath.  So far so good.

Having said this, I must also say that the SDA’s have embraced the WRONG version of the 7th day Sabbath, which needs to be corrected.  Jesus does not teach anyone to obey the 4th Commandment as the SDA’s teach.  This is a great error.

The church should only embrace the New Covenant Sabbath of Christ, not the Old Covenant Sabbath of Moses.  These are two very different 7th day Sabbath doctrines.

Moreover, I am very critical of those that claim the Sabbath is now an Every Day doctrine of spiritual rest.  The Sabbath, if there is one for the church, (and there is), can only be on the 7th day.  So the SDA’s have found some truth, but they need to find more.

NCT Exposed As Error
http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=953

SDA Sabbath Vs. Gospel Sabbath
http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=836

Jim said:  You also allude to the idea that there isn't one specific church today. Yet my Bible says "one Lord, one faith, one baptism," Eph. 4:5.

Tom said:  While the SDA’s claim to have all truth for those in Laodicea, this is obviously not true.  In fact, Jesus teaches that at the end of time, every church and denomination has misunderstood the Gospel, including the SDA’s.

Rev. 3:17 ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

Today, there are legions of churches that claim to follow Christ.  But none of them do.  They are all BLIND; full of much error and false doctrine, including and especially about the Sabbath.  

None teach a correct doctrine of the NC Sabbath, least of all the Old Covenant minded SDA’s.  They teach the Sabbath of Moses, not Christ, for which they must repent or be lost.

At the end of time, the Bible shows a doctrinally correct church proclaiming the Gospel with unity and power.  That time is still future. See Rev 18.  Adventist Reform is trying to push the SDA’s forward to the 4th and last Advent Message.

Jim said:  And any reading of the Bible makes it clear that Christians are responsible to God for keeping His commandments and having the faith of Jesus. This seems to be something missing in your criticism of the E.G. White estate.

Tom replied:  Christians are to follow the teachings of Christ, also known as the “law of Christ.”  This is not to be confused with the law of OC Moses.

1Cor. 9:19  For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more.

1Cor. 9:20  To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

1Cor. 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Jesus has not rejected the 10 Commandment law. Rather, he is careful to recast the Moral law into Christian teaching.  Thus while it was a sin to murder in the OC, Jesus teaches that it is a sin to hate and to think about murder, and so too with adultery.

However, when it comes to the Sabbath, Jesus transforms it into an active, guiltless, working day.  He does not teach a resting 7th day Sabbath, much less a Friday preparation day.  This is why the Jews sent him to the cross.

At some point, when the Gospel is better understood, so too the 7th day Gospel Sabbath of Christ.  

Jim said:  The fact is, people are always attacking Ellen White whenever they can't argue with the idea of commandment keeping.

Tom said:  I do not attack Ellen White.  She is a wonderful source to understand SDA history and theology.  Moreover, she stood up against Uriah Smith in 1888 and repudiated his promotion of obedience to the Moral law as a means of salvation.  

Listen to Uriah Smith the legalist:

"The whole object of Christ's work for us is to bring us back to the law, that its righteousness may be fulfilled in us by our obedience, and that when we at last stand beside the law, which is the test of the judgment, we may appear as absolutely in harmony with it, as if we had never belonged to a sinful race who had trampled it in the dust."

"There is a righteousness we must have, in order to see the kingdom of heaven, which is called 'our righteousness'; and this righteousness comes from being in harmony with the law of God."

R & H, Uriah Smith. 1889.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/2009/5/questions-2.htm

Gospel preached by A T Jones
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Seventh-Day-Adventists-2318/2008/10/correct-gospel-pr

Let everyone understand that the post 1888 Ellen White refuted Uriah Smith!  She argued against “commandment keeping.”  Which is why she was exiled and why the White Estate suppressed her debate with Smith, misleading generations of SDA’s into legalism.

While it is true that Ellen White was an Old Covenant Christian before 1888, just like Uriah Smith, thinking that all had to obey the law, --she changed her mind after 1888.  She became a NC Christian.  However the Takoma Park leaders liked the OC Ellen White better, so they hid the NC Ellen White and only promoted the OC, pre-1888 Ellen White.

This stunt has misled and ruined the modern Adventist movement.  The fraud in the White Estate must stop and the historic record corrected.  This is the only way to understand the real Ellen White and to save the Advent Movement.

Jim said:  Too bad, because they (law keeping) are essential to eternal life, and there is nothing "old covenant" about that, or haven't you read Genesis.

Tom said:  First off, Genesis is an Old Covenant book.  So reading it will hardly explain the New Covenant Gospel.

Second, the NC does not teach that obedience to the law is salvific.  Eternal Life is only through faith in Christ, apart from works.  Many are confused about all this and I suggest that you seriously study the definition of the Gospel, because you are way off base my friend.

Rom. 3:28  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Gal. 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Eph. 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

See also:

Law and Gospel
http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/viewtopic.php?id=1122

In fact, those that try to please God by obedience to the Moral Law are displeasing him.  This is what the book of Galatians is all about.  You need to study it and learn the Gospel.

Gal. 3:12  However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”

Gal. 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal. 2:21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Jim said:  By basing your entire criticism on the E.G. White estate, you've missed the whole point of Jesus appearance on this planet which, in part, is to enable us to keep His commandments!

Tom replied:  Wow!  So you think like Uriah Smith; Jesus came to earth to give men and women the power to obey the Moral law?  While this is what the SDA’s taught in Battle Creek, it is very wrong.  This is why there was an 1888 debate; the church leaders had become great legalists.

Long before there were SDA’s, there was a group in the early church that also embraced this same type of theology.  They were called Judaizers and the Circumcision Party.  Even Peter and James joined this error until Paul stood up for the Gospel.

Gal. 2:11  But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

Gal. 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

Gal. 2:13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

Gal. 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

There is only one Gospel, not many, even as there is only one 7th day, Gospel Sabbath.  

Today, no church has a fully correct Gospel or doctrine of the Sabbath, and the SDA’s are one of the worst offenders.  They are great legalists that have been fighting the Gospel for generations and it is getting very tiresome and counterproductive.

Gal. 1:6  I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Gal. 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Gal. 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Gal. 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Jim said:  Leave E.G. White and the estate out of your argument (?) and see what is left.

Tom said:  First, there is no way to fully understand SDA history without using Ellen White, the longest living founder.  She was also a prolific writer that kept a diary as well as a large collection of personal letters, etc.  No researcher working on Adventist history can ignore Ellen White.  Any that do so are not being honest, nor are they looking for the facts.

Second, the White Estate is responsible for promoting a false and manipulated version of Ellen White to the public, for which they are not even sorry.  In fact, they refuse to admit any wrongdoing, pretending all is well when everyone knows otherwise.  This false version of Ellen White cannot be allowed to stand.

Third, It is important for everyone to understand that the arguments for Adventist Reform are supported by the teaching of Ellen White.  She has much to say about the need for Gospel Reform within the SDA church.  It is time that her genuine voice is heard instead of the fictionalized, legalistic fraud from the White Estate.

In conclusion, you need to complain less and study the issues more carefully.  Many of your assumptions are groundless and wrong, and so too is your legalistic view of the Gospel.  

I hope this response was helpful, leading you to further research and study.

Matt. 7:7    “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Gospel regards,

Tom Norris for New Covenant Adventism & All Experts.Com

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Tom Norris

Expertise

I can answer most any question about church history and theology, starting from 1818 when William Miller articulated the 1st Angels Message that became the foundation of the Adventist Movement. While this first prophetic message terminated in the spring of 1844, it was followed by what Adventists refer to as the 2nd Angels Message, which dates from the spring of 1844 until the great disappointment of October 22, 1844. By 1847, the 3rd Angels Message had been developed and this Sabbatarian theology represents the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Moreover, I can explain the historical and theological development of the SDA denomination from its beginning and on through the great Battle Creek schism that forced the SDA's to retreat to Takoma Park. Here the 20th century church recovered from their internal battles that had erupted at the 1888 General Conference in Minneapolis over the definition of the law and the Gospel. Fearing another repeat of this disaster, President Daniels, determined to hide this debate. However, this policy led to more conflict, especially over the role and authority of Ellen White, a unique and accomplished religious writer that had remarkable spiritual gifts. However, by the decade of the 1970`s, the church once again erupted into debate. The hierarchy settled the turmoil in 1980 with the trial of Dr. Desmond Ford at Glacier View. Here Dr. Ford was exiled because he supposedly disagreed with Ellen White over the Fundamentals. But this controversial action resulted in another major schism that is still in progress today.

Experience

Tom Norris was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist in Takoma Park, Md. He attended SDA grade and High schools, moving on to study Adventist theology at Columbia Union College. He also spent significant time conducting independent research in the General Conference Archives and the Ellen G. White Estate. Over the years he has also interviewed a number of prominent Adventist scholars, theologians, and Pastors ranging from the late Arthur White to the exiled Dr. Desmond Ford. In addition, he has amassed a large private library, which includes numerous rare books and manuscripts about Adventist theology and history. He is presently the online editor of Adventist Reform, and can be found at Adventist for Tomorrow answering questions online about SDA theology and history as well as promoting Adventist Reform. http://www.atomorrow.net/fluxbb/

Education/Credentials
Tom Norris attended SDA grade and High schools, moving on to study Adventist theology at Columbia Union College. He also spent significant time conducting independent research in the General Conference Archives and the Ellen G. White Estate.

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