Seventh-Day Adventists/SDA brothers and objectivity
John wrote at 2014-04-17 19:46:56
Are your SDA friends saved by the blood of Jesus? Do they uphold the words of our Lord when He said: “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live”? Do they accept the promise of our Lord in John 3:16-18, and share that assurance with others?
If the answer to those questions is yes, then why be so critical of your friends and how they have chosen to follow our Lord? Is it because you are concerned that they are not saved, are not guaranteed a place in heaven, do not have their sins cover by the blood of our savior, or are unwilling to surrender all to Him?
For years now I have been reading questions and comments like yours, along with Sal’s rather eccentric opinions, and I have yet to understand why some people choose to waste the precious little time God has given us in this life to argue with fellow Christians over doctrinal differences. Rather than looking for ways to persuade your SDA friends to believe exactly as you do, why not focus your efforts on leading the lost to our Savior?
And why do you feel you need to rely on mere mortals like Sal and the traditions of a church to be your ‘experts’ in the interpretation of scripture? Remember the words of Jesus: “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you”. One does not need to be educated to understand scripture, they just need to be willing to ask Jesus for help.
So if you feel the need to contest the beliefs of the SDAs, wouldn’t it be better to study the Word for yourself and come to your own conclusions regarding their views? You may actually be surprised to learn where the Holy Spirit leads you on that journey!
Frank wrote at 2014-04-21 06:11:39
4 16 2014 - SDA brothers and objectivity
Let’s take a serious look at what is being said here. It is a sad commentary on the attitude of those who profess Christ as savior yet rely on tradition and the teachings of others to mold their beliefs.
Brother Serge: "I hope all is well with you and that you health is fine. I have some SDA friends and I find most of them to be rather bright and well adjusted people so it makes me wonder what's preventing them to access the objectivity needed to see the obvious (i.e. that EW was a false prophet and that her teachings are way off)."
<<< Has it ever occurred to those who believe EGW is a false prophet that they are being deceived? In Old Testament times the prophets were often rejected and treated in a less than humane manner. They “. . . were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.” (Hebrews 11:35-38 KJV) They were treated this way by those who professed to be believers in the one true God and the promised savior. Mrs. White is fortunate to have been called in a more civilized age and lived out her life in relative safety. >>>
The same reasoning apply to some other denominations (JW, Mormons...) - it is obvious that beliefs are a very emotionally charged topic and has often a lot to do with personality. How can we get someone to take a good hard look at what can be objectively verified? Personally, I rely on Traditions and the Magisterium as they back their conclusions with what I perceive to be the right interpretations of scriptures and sound reasonings. I have to rely on the right experts as I am not qualified to read all scriptures by myself - I simply don't have the educational background to do so.
<<< It is this part of the question/comment that is particularly disturbing. Everyone is qualified to read the scriptures and determine for themselves whether or not what they are being told is truth or not. The Holy Spirit is no respecter of persons and is willing to give wisdom to all who ask with a humble, teachable heart. “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” (Acts 10:34-35 KJV) “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (James 1:5 KJV) God considers those who study scripture to discern truth from error to be nobler in character than those who don’t. “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11 KJV)
<<< The questioner is welcome to disagree with what some of his SDA acquaintances are telling him but if those he is choosing to follow are wrong, that will not serve as an excuse in the judgment. His reliance on tradition and the Magisterium rather than his own study contradicts his statement that what he believes can be objectively verified. It also sounds as if he has been convicted by the truth he has heard from his SDA friends but is unwilling to forgo his beliefs based on those traditions (or what the expert has defined as “already held beliefs.”)
Let’s consider the expert’s response:>>>
“This is a very difficult topic that you have chosen to discuss. As you said one's beliefs, especially religious beliefs, is a very emotionally charged issue and that is probably the number one reason why they cannot see the truth. Once one accepts a set of beliefs into his heart and soul it becomes very difficult for him to give up those beliefs no matter how much evidence you can present showing them to be false beliefs.”
<<< Does not the expert understand that SDA’s could accuse him of having the same problem and doing the same thing? “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?” (Luke 6:41 KJV)
He goes on to say that one of the problems of SDA’s is they may not see things as he does. Does he not understand that SDA’s could accuse him of having the same problem?
His next accusation is very condescending and accusatory in nature, while assuming Mrs. White is a false prophet: >>>
““If you or I try to teach these SDAs something they don't like they may say, "Who are you to teach me? You are not a member of the Remnant Church, you do not keep the Sabbath, you do not believe EGW. So how can you be right and the Remnant Church wrong?" So it can seem hopeless, but we must keep preaching the word of God.”
<<< Only those SDA’s who can’t support their beliefs from the Bible might exhibit such an attitude but even then that does not invalidate their beliefs. The truth is, every SDA doctrine can be supported from the Bible. Others may disagree and “it can seem hopeless, but we must keep preaching the word of God.”
The dispute is over the meaning of the 10 C’s. They believe there is not a single sin that isn’t encompassed by the 10 C’s. SDA’s believe that the 10 C’s represent the entire broken moral law. They believe that the principles of the Decalogue were written in the heart and mind of Adam and Eve when they were created and is the law that was transgressed when they sinned. “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4 KJV). There is so much more that can be said concerning the 10 C’s and especially the 4th commandment. The dispute began in heaven and is between Christ and Satan and will not reach its conclusion until sin and sinners are destroyed in the lake of fire. Since the dispute concerns worship, the Sabbath of the 4th commandment has become the principle object of this dispute but in the end Satan is the loser and the true Sabbath will be observed in the earth made new (Isaiah 66:22, 23).
The expert closes with this quote from the Bible and once again it can be seen that his criticisms (in this case a Bible verse) against SDA’s can be turned around to be used against him as well.
"I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables" (2 Timothy 4:1-4 NKJV).
In Christ’s love,