Seventh-Day Adventists/Sunday laws, IJ, Tithe, EGW
I have written to you before and I like what you have to say. I'm struggling with Ellen White and some of the Adventist doctrines.
I grew up SDA, schooled and churched. I'm 59. My struggle is with the national Sunday law's which seem impossible in today's world. SDA fp tend to read and interpret the Bible through EGW. If you look at the middle east, Christians are being persecuted, beheaded for being Christian, most are Sunday keepers. There's no Sunday law! SDA think Sabbath will be a test even though it never has been. Your thoughts would be welcomed.
I struggle with the sanctuary doctrine, I do not find Adventist teaching biblical.
I don't tithe 10%. We give freewill offering's where it's needed
the homeless man on the street, the unwed pregnant women, a us veteran etc...is this robing God? We help family members and employee's who struggle as well.
I welcome your thoughts on these issues plus EGW was she a phony? Have the sdas been deceived? Is the only requirement for salvation Jesus and Jesus alone?
Than you Tom.
Kelly, I sympathize with your uncomfortable predicament. Most, if not all SDA’s today are confused, discouraged, and embarrassed about what they have been taught. Many are also angry. Which is why millions of once loyal Adventists have left the Denomination in the past 40 years.
Many have become exhausted over the never ending debates about Ellen White, the Law, and the Investigative Judgment; many are also repulsed by the corrupt, legalistic hierarchy that is full of Old Covenant double-talk and false doctrine.
Future trends in the SDA church
The divided SDA’s are self-destructing for all to see, just as Christ predicted in the Gospels and Revelation. They have been greatly deceived, like all other churches in Laodicea, and they had better repent. Most of what they teach is false, false, and false. In fact, their view of the Sabbath, which they think is flawless, is not near as correct as they think. But they are clueless to their errors.
Mark 3:24-25 “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. “If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
Rev. 3:14,15 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
Rev. 3:17 ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Not only are the arrogant and fractured SDA’s wealthy, worth about $35 Billion; they also claim to be “rich” with Gospel doctrine, superior to all others. But like the rebellious Jews, they seem oblivious to the possibility that they could be wrong about doctrine. If they don’t soon repent and embrace Gospel Reform, they are doomed, just like the Jews they emulate.
While Adventist teachings about Sunday laws made some sense in the 19th century, such eschatology made much less in the 20th century. Now that we have entered the 21st century, a time when there is more knowledge and democracy than ever before; the idea that the Papacy and Sunday laws will bring about the final Tribulation of the world is absurd and ludicrous; as well as against the teaching of Jesus and the NT.
Sunday Laws play a unique and featured role in SDA eschatology. Because of their emphasis on the 7th day Sabbath, Sunday became the false Sabbath of the Papal Anti-Christ, and thus a sign of disloyalty and disobedience to God. This viewpoint was given credibility by the 19th century ecumenical push for Sunday blue laws, which most all churches supported.
National Sunday Law
However, this push for civil Sunday laws faded away in the 20th century, and today, as you correctly state, there is no possibility of such laws making a comeback, much less causing the end of the world. Which means that Adventism needs to update and revise their Sabbatarian based eschatology. What made sense in the early 19th century, makes very little sense in the 21st century. Knowledge has increased too much.
Dan. 12:4 “But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”
Fortunately for SDA’s, their eschatology teaches there will come a time when 1) their doctrines no longer make sense and 2) the church seems about to collapse. This dangerous situation, which is clearly taking place now, 3) pushes the church forward to update their views about the end of the world. The Pioneers referred to this advanced theology as the 4th Angels Message, which is different from the previous 3rd Angels Message, which has collapsed for all to see.
4th Angels Message
Investigative Judgment / Pre-Advent Judgment
The 19th century SDA’s were primitive, uneducated and theologically naïve. It is a miracle that they found as much truth as they did. However, one of their greatest errors is to misunderstand Dan 8: 14, and then to exile their scholars for pointing out the problem. Until the SDA’s repent for how they treated Dr. Ford at Glacier View, and stop defending outdated and impossible doctrines, they will continue to foolishly self-destruct.
Entering the Most Holy Place
IJ / Pre-Advent Judgment
The Judgment of the Little Horn Power
A few years ago, an SDA zealot, Herb Kersten, came online claiming he could prove Dr. Ford wrong and rehabilitate the IJ. However, he ran away when confronted with 7 simple propositions. In fact, it only takes one basic point to condemn the IJ for all to see. But here are all 7 points; each one is fatal.
7 Irrefutable points Proving IJ False
Here are 7 irrefutable points that prove the IJ wrong. The first one alone, is sufficient to reject it, and so too any of the others. None of these points were properly addressed by Herb’s dishonest website, much less refuted.
1. Jesus does not support the SDA interpretation of Dan 8:14; He embraces another view, which all that follow Christ must also embrace.
Daniel’s prophecy is about the Hanukkah story, (Festival of Lights), which history is embraced by all Jews, as well as Christ when on earth, and the Jews to this very day. All SDA's need to understand Hanukkah, then they can better understand the book of Daniel and go forward to understand 21st century eschatology. At this point, their eschatology is confused and worthless. They are in the dark, unprepared for the great Tribulation, which they do not understand.
2. The Pre-Advent Judgment of the Church cannot be in the OT or the book of Daniel. If the PAJ exists at all, which it does, it must be found in the NT. Only the NT can define Gospel doctrine for the church, not the OT.
3. The PAJ of the last church is found in Rev 3: 14. It is not found in the OT book of Daniel as the SDA’s claim. Here is the true doctrine of the Pre-Advent Judgment, which applies to every church and denomination today, including the SDA’s!
4. Neither the OT nor the NT supports a “celestial Judgment” to examine the believers sanctification. There is no such Judgment in the Bible. The IJ is an error, and no amount of double-talk from the SDA’s can change the theological or historical facts.
5. No serious scholars or historians support the IJ, nor has any church or denomination ever embraced this teaching, except for the SDA’s, and most of them now repudiate it, including their best scholars, like Dr. Ford and Raymond Cottrell. The SDA’s are being very dishonest to pretend otherwise.
6. While Traditional, Takoma Park Adventism defines the IJ as a fundamental “pillar” of the Advent Movement, anchored in Rev 14: 7. This was never true. Not one Pioneer, including Ellen White or Uriah Smith made such a claim. In fact, there is no such “pillar” in any of the Three Angels Messages, nor is this doctrine the reason why Adventists exist, as many have been indoctrinated.
The doctrine of the 2nd Coming as the Day of Judgment is the reason why the Advent Movement came into existence. Rev 14: 7 was only interpreted as being the Judgment of the 2nd Coming. The later developing IJ, (1857) had zero to do with the doctrinal development of any the Three Angels Messages, which pillars had already been erected by 1847.
7. The doctrine of the IJ is associated with long list of additional false, legalistic doctrines from the SDA’s, such as tithing, OC Sabbath keeping, Jewish food laws and perfectionism, just to name a few. It is not a stand-alone error, but one of many that must be repudiated.
The IJ repudiates the Gospel and marginalizes the 2nd Coming, which is the real Judgment pillar in the 1st Angels Message. It is a doctrine that refutes the Foundational pillars of Historic Adventism, and thus it must be repudiated by anyone who claims to embrace the Three Angels Messages.
These 7 points will stand the test of time. They are irrefutable. Which is why the SDA’s refuse to have a public discussion about the IJ or tithing, or any doctrine. They know they cannot withstand a cross examination from those who know the facts. So they prefer to mischaracterize and slander their critics, safely hiding behind their multi-billion $$ media Empire and their many dishonest websites.
The IJ & Herb Kersten
Tom Norris' IJ Comments
7 Points that disprove the Investigative Judgment
Tithe in the Church is False Doctrine
The Old Covenant doctrine of tithe was never a New Covenant teaching or apostolic practice. Neither Christ nor the apostles embraced a tithing system for the church, which is why there is not one example of any Christian paying tithe in the New Testament.
The doctrine of tithe in the church is false and dangerous for a number of reasons. First, it denies the Priesthood of all Believers, even as it sets up an elite hierarchy to rule over the church. This is against the Gospel.
Many churches beside the SDA’s embrace tithing, although none do it so obsessively as the Adventists. While I am sympathetic to those that think tithing is a valid church doctrine, the fact of the matter is that they have been brainwashed by those that do not understand the Gospel. Thus legions think they are following Christ by practicing the Old Covenant doctrine of tithe, when they are actually following Moses and the Old Covenant, even repudiating Christ.
This issue about tithe is telling and important. It shows who is paying attention to the genuine teachings of Christ and his apostles versus those that are following a worthless, Old Covenant Gospel full of myths and nonsense. Tithe is not a New Covenant doctrine or principle, nor is it part of the teachings of Christ or his Apostles. Why do so many embrace this false doctrine? Why are so many blind to the Gospel?
For the record, Ellen White refused to fully embrace or support the Denominations tithe doctrine. No one today should pay tithe to anyone. To do so is to confess that you do not follow Jesus or his Gospel teachings.
TITHE IS NOT A DOCTRINE
Is Ellen White A Fraud?
Ellen White was a real person, married to James White, the man most instrumental in developing the SDA Denomination. He was far more important than her, but you would never know this by the way the White Estate has embellished and portrayed her life story. While Ellen White was not a fraud, the White Estate has created a knowingly fabricated version of her, embellishing her well beyond anything that Ellen White would have allowed or approved when she was alive.
Arthur White, while not alone in this monumental scam, is the most dishonest man in SDA history. He made his grandmother into many things that she never was, even as he hid the real record in the White Estate to protect his fraud. However, Arthur White’s fabrications could only last until someone found the facts in the White Estate. I have been in the White Estate and I found thousands of hidden Ellen White documents that refute what the church has been teachings about Ellen White and church history.
Hidden Documents in White Estate
Unfortunately, this fraudulent story about Ellen White and Adventist history has caused endless confusion and debate within Adventism to this very day. Unless the Denomination repents and corrects the record in the White Estate, the SDA’s will continue to self-destruct in confusion for all to see.
Is Ellen White A False Prophet?
While it is true that the SDA’s were very legalistic, promoting obedience to the moral law as a requirement for salvation, they were not alone in this error. The New England Puritans, from which they came, were very legalistic, which is why they enforced Sunday observance with the most rigid and harsh penalties. But Jesus no does not teach Sunday observance anymore than he teaches Old Covenant Sabbath keeping. Which is to say that neither the SDA’s nor the Puritans have the correct New Covenant doctrine of the Sabbath as they assume. Eternal life is only through faith in Christ. It is not based on any supposed obedience to the Law.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:47 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Eternal life does not come through any denomination, much less the SDA’s. Salvation is only through Christ and his Word. Not through false views of what Jesus teaches.
John 17:3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Mark 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
What Jesus teaches about salvation, the Sabbath and eschatology is what Christians must believe and follow. Eternal life is given freely to those that believe in Christ. It is not given to those that don’t believe like Christ. It is not given to those that embrace Jewish food laws, pay tithe, or rest on the Sabbath. Those that do such things are following a false Sabbath and a Christ.
New Covenant Sabbath Questions
Sabbath Day both Moral AND ceremonial?
OC Sabbath Keeping II & Gospel Reform
The Gospel & SDA’s
Today, there are so many problems with Adventist history, theology, and Management that something must to be done. Inaction, or the wrong actions, will result in the destruction of the Advent Movement, which is presently taking place for all to see. However, if ever there was a time when credible eschatology is needed in the world, it is now. Adventism is anything but outdated. Too bad the SDA’s are self-destructing when the world is anticipating apocalyptical events, looking for answers about the immediate future.
All SDA’s should protest the doctrinal corruption and error that has overwhelmed the Denomination. No one should support what is clearly so wrong and against the teachings of Christ, much less with the Old Covenant doctrine of tithe. Those that claim to follow the genuine Christ, cannot support any organization that follows so many false, anti-Gospel doctrines.
Unless the SDA leaders repent for their many fabrications about Ellen White and church history, and correct the false record in the White Estate, they are doomed! One way or another, the facts about Ellen White will become public, and so too the massive fraud in the White Estate, which is the source for so much debate, confusion, and misdirection within Adventism.
Unless the SDA’s repent to Dr. Ford for Glacier View and renounce their legalistic and impossible views about the IJ and Dan 8: 14 they are doomed! Unable to comprehend genuine Gospel eschatology.
Unless the SDA’s repent of their many Old Covenant views, like tithe, Jewish food laws, and Old Covenant Sabbath keeping, they are doomed! Such legalism is worthless and against the Gospel.
Unless the SDA’s repent of their confused eschatology, which claims that Sunday laws bring about the Tribulation, they will never comprehend genuine Gospel eschatology.
At this point in Adventist history, all THREE Angels Messages have terminated. This means it is time for all Adventists, both leaders and people, to stop pretending the 3rd Angels Message can be rehabilitated, adjusted, and saved. It cannot. The 3rd Angels Message, with its many legalistic and false doctrines has terminated and no amount of theological spin from the hierarchy will bring new life into a terminated and dead message.
So is this the end of the Advent Movement?
The world is a powder keg; it has never been more on the edge, so close to the great Tribulation. But who is prepared? No one. Today, there is no credible eschatology in any church or denomination, including the confused SDA’s.
So we stand, not at the end of the Advent Movement, but at the beginning of the next Advent message; which is the 4th Angels Message. This is where all Adventists must migrate today. This is where the Advent Movement must focus.
Clearly, it is time for another paradigm shift within Adventist eschatology. There is really no choice; the church must go forward or self-destruct. Adventism must admit its many errors and repent so that it can move forward to the 4th Angels Message, embracing Gospel Reform with both hands. This is the only path.
Adventist eschatology, which was once cutting edge, must re-focus on their practical and critical Gospel mission to prepare the church for the end of the world and the 2nd Coming. What could be more important and timely?
Matt. 24:21 “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Mark 4:23 “If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”
I hope this helps.
Tom Norris for All Experts.Com & Adventist Reform